Viper Strike

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Vipermagi wrote:

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Vincendra wrote:

The lack of support gems. While PA can be supported by traps/mines and the DoT getting a great buff by the "more" multi, while being safe with traps from range, VS needs to be applied in melee range (where 2h suffers more from lacking defence again if using a 2h Sword) and doesn't have the options of PA.

Wish some of those facts would be reflected onto the base dmg of VS.

lv23 Poison Arrow: 1,136.3 Damage per Second
lv23 Viper Strike: 405.6 Damage per Second, *4 = 1622.4 Damage per Second

40% more Damage per Second? I'd say that compensates for not having to bother with Trap shenanigans. Conc completely nullifies the Splash penalty and then a bit, so you don't reduce your Damage potential just to get some AoE (doesn't leave much without some x% Increased Radius, admittedly; radius of 9).

There is a bit of compensation for VS'... Less desirable conditions, I suppose.

... Cant support VS with taht, can you, neither can you get trap nodes for it then.

Thought about VS for a while now and tried to do some math. Please correct me:

LVL 20 VS: ~290 damage per second.
All %Chaos Damage and %Damage over times nodes combined: 162%
290 * 2,62 = ~760 (One stack of VS deals 760 damage per second for x seconds).
760 * 4 = 3040 (So we're dealing 3040 damage per second when we apply 4 stacks).

Since we are using Melee Splash we deal 16% less damage to the main target and 31% less damage to other targets.

MAIN TARGET
3040 * 0,84 = ~2550

OTHER TARGET
3040 * 0,69 = ~2100

I've read that every single humanoid enemy in PoE is resistant to chaos damage. I've read in multiple forum posts that 'Resists chaos damage' means, that the enemy has 75% chaos resist. (I havn't found any source to confirm this tho!)

MAIN TARGET
2550 * 0,25 = ~640

OTHER TARGET
2100 * 0,25 = ~525

VS LVL 20 + INCREASED DURATION LVL 20 ~13 seconds

So we basically deal 640 damage per second for 13 seconds to the main target (8320 damage total) and 525 damage per second for 13 seconds to other targets (6825 damage total).

Besides using a somewhat higher leveled VS Gem and the vulnerability curse there is no other option to increase the damage.

I'm not entirely sure what the damage incease by using vulnerability is calculated. Maybe someone could give me a hint. It would also be interesting to know how much HP a level ~76 monster has.

If vulnerability is calculated after the penaltys from melee splash and chaos resist we'd deal 640 * 1,4 = ~900 damage per second to the main target. Still seems to be very low imho.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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kahzin wrote:

I've read that every single humanoid enemy in PoE is resistant to chaos damage. I've read in multiple forum posts that 'Resists chaos damage' means, that the enemy has 75% chaos resist. (I havn't found any source to confirm this tho!)

I have no idea where you heard either of these things but they're both untrue.

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to find any accurate information about monster resistances on your forum! Maybe you could throw me a link? :)

This is one of the forum posts I read into.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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kahzin wrote:

I've read that every single humanoid enemy in PoE is resistant to chaos damage. I've read in multiple forum posts that 'Resists chaos damage' means, that the enemy has 75% chaos resist. (I havn't found any source to confirm this tho!)

I have no idea where you heard either of these things but they're both untrue.

Instead of calling someone out for misinformation, I think the better post should have been one with actual answers. For example

1. Why did Poison Arrow get a damage boost after that terrible November nerf and Viper Strike didn't. I literally thought that the next patch would have had it and GGG just needed time. Now it seems like GGG is simply unaware that Viper Strike stinks. Now even if poison arrow and viper strike damage is remotely similar, the big penalty of having to be in the middle of the mobs in melee range, while poison arrow, with or without traps can be mobile gives poison arrow a much better survivability factor, hence why generally speaking, Melee damage SHOULD be higher, much higher then range damage, something that isn't seen in this example.

2. Why is there so little ways to boost the damage of the already anemic Viper strike damage

3. Why is there no Chaos Penetration gem?? or better yet, why are there just three Chaos damage skill?? It is the 5th form of damage, but yet there is very few actual skills that utilize it.

4. Why is the chaos/DOT damage nodes only in the Shadow and Ranger Tree. Even the ranger has a few increase elemental damage with weapon nodes near her. for example, if I have to be in Melee range, I sure would have liked to start with a Maurader.

It seems to me that Viper Strike got the big nerf simply for PvP balancing and that is quite unfortunate as if people chose not to bump up their chaos damage resistance, then that is of their own choosing. Hanging around with -60% chaos damage should have consequences. Even with the -60, you have builds with 30, 40,. 50, even over 100K DPS, they should more than be able to blow through a 8K per sec viper strike build. Lastly, if so many groups in endgame are chaos resistance, there probably should be a way to mitigate it, OR reduce the amount of chaos resistant mobs we encounter.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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powerincarnate wrote:

3. Why is there no Chaos Penetration gem??

Chaos Pen would be all but completely useless for both Viper Strike and Poison Arrow.
Penetration is an on-Hit effect. Damage over Time does not Hit.

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Vincendra wrote:

... Cant support VS with taht, can you, neither can you get trap nodes for it then.

That's my entire point :/
Viper Strike already deals roughly 40% More Damage, without the Trap Support. Trap brings PA's Damage close to, but still below, VS'. Trap nodes eventually push PA above VS, slightly.
The Trap support is not that big a deal.

Now think about the reason I haven't commented on the rest.

PLEASE consider that NEEDING Splash/Conc effect to get not even the same % effectivenes through splash less dmg mod.

And the fact that the only possibilty to 6 link a VS in a +1 all gem +2 melee is 2handed swords.

While PA can be 6linked in a +1 +2 bow easily.

If you are talking about plain VS vs plain PA, yes, VS is stronger.

But you need to consider the environment of how you can link and suppport them.

VS is so hard to support and spread eavenly compeared to PA.

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powerincarnate wrote:

Instead of calling someone out for misinformation, I think the better post should have been one with actual answers. For example

Amen.

To B2T: You need to consider that you can support PA with Trap, Remonte Mine, Increased AoE, Conc Effect, Projectile Damage passive nodes, and I believe items like sunblast. And PA also has AoE without any support while you are pretty much forced to use Melee Splash with VS.

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Why is the chaos/DOT damage nodes only in the Shadow and Ranger Tree.

I heavily support that decision. One of the few parts on the tree that actually separates the classes (as opposed to how EVERYONE has Aura nodes), and the only damage source that the Scion is ideally situated for. (Especially with Poison Arrow due to the projectile% in her southern path.)

I'd like to see VS made usable with staves, since the flat damage would help compensate for the difficulty of rolling a staff, and allow for more hybrid builds. I don't see why the weapon choice is as limited as it is, since the skill doesn't do anything particularly viperous/fang-based, it just applies a chaos debuff.

I'd also suggest removing some objectively terrible mod from the affix pool (light radius perhaps?) and replacing it with "(X)% increased Damage Over Time". The affix pool should be large and hard to roll, but there's no need to bloat it with completely worthless stats when some builds (such as DoT builds) have no gear support whatsoever.

My viper strike doesnt seem to work neither with +chaos dmg nor +dot dmg passives :(

I wanted to do uberhipster build since not too many people use this gem and it doesnt ever work properly damnit.