Viper Strike

I'm mostly annoyed with the state of poison at the moment. Skills that deal half of their damage or less as physical are beating out phys/chaos skills because they tend to hit more frequently. Viper Strike feels central to this issue, and instead of fixing it, they've tried adding some poison skills around it that will get the job done. Each feels more gimmicky than the next, and while they are capable skills, they feel like they're missing the desire to be a poison build.

The problem with Viper Strike is that it feels as much like a Viper as needed in basic mechanics, especially now with slower attacks being implemented a couple leagues ago, but it's missing something even to that effect. A viper strike should feel more one-and-done, but instead it's meant to whittle in a slow, building death, somewhat unlike any other poison skill. Others generally have to hit their potential within the 2-second poison period, whereas Viper Strike might hit its stride at 4 seconds of constant hits, or you can drag it out to 8-10 seconds or more with Increased Skill Effect Duration, unlike any other poison. I like the duration fantasy, mostly, but not when I have to keep biting to make it feel like I'm getting that effect. I'm more expecting something like Essence Drain, or basically standard bleed effects, which won't gain damage on subsequent hits.

Now, I realize that's where poison is now, and that's mostly fine. However, Viper Strike needs to be a different type of skill, in my opinion. What I'm envisioning is a skill that, as an example, does a minor hit of damage, and then poisons the enemy over 8 seconds based on the poison damage they're already taking. If they are taking 1 regular hit of poison, they'll take that regular hit again over 8 seconds. If they're taking 8 full hits (by damage, no 20x poison in one cast type deal), you'll deal 8 full hits over that 8 second timeframe. As poison has gotten somewhat ridiculous on other builds, I'd suggest this to be capped at around 8 or so hits worth of poison, but I think this would fit the viper fantasy by requiring a "threat period" where you build your poisons, and finally swoop in for a powerful strike. Keep in mind, once you cast Viper Strike in this case, your current poisons will no longer be available for the next Viper Strike, it'd require a new counter, or simply envelop all current poisons into one big Viper Strike poison. It might be helpful to make this then scale harder with more counter-intuitive stats, like Crit Multiplier or possibly Attack Speed, since Viper Strike will no longer gain anything inherently from either.

TL;DR, I'd change Viper Strike into a skill that deals more damage based on poisons present on enemy, not as a skill based on building poisons alone. This will make the skill feel more like a one-and-done, and build more on a real venom fantasy than going for the thousand bite method. Bites do not feel very impactful when the DoT doesn't go very far on a single strike, particularly on the weapons allowed for the skill.

And as a second note, I would be interested in more builds that can utilize a ranged-melee dual presence like this could usher in. This would open the possibility of poisoning from a range into a snake bite at melee, and the other build I liked to run occasionally was using Bow Frenzy from afar to gain charges, then Flicker Strike in quick sequence to mow down enemies. Any possibility of working that direction would open up more build possibilities for me, and I'm sure others that'd get a kick out of the idea.

I find it quite odd that other poison skills get their inherent conversion buffed to 60% but not viper strike. Is this an oversight or intended?

Edit: got amended.

A skill with a bad clear, and now also a bad solo target damage (thanks to the removal of the threshold jewel), the skill can safely be put on the dustiest shelf next to other skills that do not buff as violently as traps.

So... I decided it would be fun to try making a viper strike character, Then I saw that all the threshold jewels were removed from the game... YIKES. Then I read viper strike and pestilent strike next to eachother; viper strike is useless in it's current iteration. Please add the jewel back or just delete the skill, or stop punishing dual wielding? There is no case in which viper strike would be better than pestilent strike currently. Why?

tbh i kinda like the removal of the threshold gem as the base gem itself was buffed.

my reason is because i feel that there should be different ways to play a single skill.

how it has been is that viper strike shines when you have high attack speed.

newer ways to play viper strike are now available but still need more exploration.

for example, the cluster jewel notable/poison mastery that makes the first hit against a non poisoned enemy take 300% increased poison damage.

that simply is bonkers, but is still missing out as attackspeed still, kinda is king.

it doesnt help that double/triple damage doesnt effect poison/ailments.

i m fine with how viper strike is currently. my only suggestion is that all strike skills have "strikes skills target 1 additional target" by default.

i've tried so many different setups, having 1 "ancestor" helping out is really a game changer. with so many area denials/danger zones, being able to sneak a hit in from a distance helps a big deal.

Can we please get the dual wield penalties removed from viper strike.
Or maybe have the penalties it currently has(-30% attack speed and -20% damage) gradually go down to 0 when level 20 is reached, so it can be a more viable skill for mid/late game.

Other Buff thoughts: Have splash damage built in? Or target # nearby enemies?

short duration Viper Strike is a meme even with Kobe Bryant's 240% more multi and the base gem needs attack speed quality more than it needs increased duration. the concept of gem qualities that do nothing until you reach +20% doesn't even align with the original concept of quality, i.e. a granular means of steadily upgrading your character as gear upgrades and levels become more sporadic.

this gem is budget-effective but underperforms in the grand scheme of things so I don't get why y'all won't leave it alone, nerfs to PF and other build archetypes that affected VS as collateral damage I can understand, but this is just disrespectful.

what do I know tho, I only had the strongest Viper Strike character in NA during Sentinel

Where is the skill gem feedback thread for Viper Strike of the Mamba?

If it's supposed to be here, then...


Is Viper Strike of the Mamba bugged?

From the wiki (https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Viper_Strike_of_the_Mamba):

"

To maximize the damage from Viper Strike of the Mamba, it's important to have your attack speed be as close to the poison duration as possible without getting your attacks per second faster than the poison duration.

Sadism Support synergizes the best with this skill, allowing you to maintain a high attack speed while avoiding the penalty.

However...

I have attack speed higher (like 0.3 seconds) than my poison duration (like 0.26 seconds -- using sadism), and OFTEN my poison just does not seem to apply.

It's hard to test without a combat log, but it seems like it might actually only be applying every other hit. I tested against rare mobs highly resistant (not immune) to chaos damage. I'm sure I had 100% chance to hit (but even if not, it'll be really close), and had over 100% chance to poison. Not using momentum or frenzy charges, so attack speed is consistant.

And some blue mobs which should always take exactly 2 hits to kill often take 3 (not sure if it's always 3 or not).

I found this reddit post that seems to agree: https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/18j08oo/viper_strike_of_the_mamba_sadism_multistrike_yay/

I'm worried that it's testing if the target is poisoned at beginning of the attack, not when the attack actually connects and would apply the poison. If it tests at the beginning of the attack, then there's no realistic way to have two consecutive attacks apply poison -- no matter how slow my attacks are, or how low I get the poison duration.

If that's the case, then this skill just feels bad to use because...

a) Even if this skill worked perfectly as I had imagined and the wiki describes, you still kinda have to sacrifice a gem slot for every other attack skill you have equipped for a sadism gem (whirling blades, etc). Otherwise, the longer poison duration on those skills will interfere -- that's a big sacrifice. Could run with only this as your 1 attack skill -- but that is boring as hell, which is why I say it feels bad. Arguably, this mostly only affects whirling blades, but I'm not giving up whirling blades.

b) It just feels bad when poison procs only something like every other hit because it feels exactly as if I'm just missing a lot.

If the check for whether the target is poisoned happens at the beginning of the attack and that is intended, then it should say that... somewhere -- ideally on the tooltip, but a wiki entry or even a post here would do. Because it's not obvious with the current wording, goes directly against what the wiki says, and it's hard to test without a combat log.

If that's NOT what's happening, then...

I dunno.

This is hard to test without a combat log. Maybe my passive chance to poison being picked up by Herald of Agony? Doesn't seem like it, because that would be a 2 second period where I couldn't apply poisons with mamba and that doesn't seem to be happening. Or maybe I'm getting stunned A LOT and not realizing it -- I'm swinging away while staring at the hp bar at the top of the screen, but it sounds like I'm getting all my hits in. Maybe they have high block % or some flat avoid %? But then the sound effect for hits would be different. Maybe lockstep networking is cocking it up somehow? Kinda need lockstep for whirling blades (I have 6 to 13 ms latency so lockstep is amazing for me).


I'll continue testing it to try and figure out what's really happening and update this post if I can puzzle out anything. First I'll test without herald of agony (it'll drop my chance to poison to 95%, but whatever). I might have to record the video of my tests since there's no combat log.

EDIT: Just realized this isn't the skill gem feedback section, BUT there is no skill gem feedback thread for Viper Strike of the Mamba.

"

Daemonjax wrote:

Is Viper Strike of the Mamba bugged?


I have attack speed higher (like 0.3 seconds) than my poison duration (like 0.26 seconds -- using sadism), and OFTEN my poison just does not seem to apply.

I'm worried that it's testing if the target is poisoned at beginning of the attack, not when the attack actually connects and would apply the poison. If it tests at the beginning of the attack, then there's no realistic way to have two consecutive attacks apply poison -- no matter how slow my attacks are, or how low I get the poison duration.

Can you post your POB? there is no combat log, but there is POB which may reveal what the issue is.

The attack animation when mamba strike is used with a shield is a slam animation. It takes like 1 full second. When you dual wield, it's snappy fast.

I know dual wielding gives 10% more attack speed, but this isn't that. This is a completely different, slower, animation.

It feels bad. It makes it feel like using a shield with this skill is a terrible decision. You already sacrifice half the damage by using a shield, why does the attack animation need to be a slam?

If it were just as fast, less the 10% more attack speed for dual wielding, I think it would feel great.

But as it is, if you equip a shield it feels like doryani's touch instead of a strike skill.