Raise Spectre

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If only there was a way to see some details on your minions, like hitpoints so you could deduce these things yourself.
Before i blindly trust you, where did you get this info?

I don't remember where this was posted. But there are some observations you can make that makes this case. You know that Desecrate creates up to level 100 corpses? If you use Desecrate on zone level 20, Raise Spectre and go to zone level 67, you will notice that the Spectres don't level up. Because well, they die right away.
The limiter here I believe is corpse level won't exceed zone level, regardless of whether the rare has an actual +2 levels or just +2 level for drops. The corpse of that rare won't exceed the zone level.

So GGG where are you?

Hi,

my second post here.


So i just tried to do death and taxes on my lvl 89 summoner, with shavs, safrells frame and the vertex.
Im fully specced for spectre summon build, have 4900 es and a solid 4.4% regen on es and i have 82cold/82fire/83lightning resistances

zombies have just short of 11k hitpoints, and i have 3 spectres - all of them have trough eagis 85 to all resistances.
All gems are lvl 20 and the ones that matter have 20% quality.

i run 6 aura's, 3xpurity,vitality,grace and discipline
i also have rejuv totem

i took 3x lvl 73 evangelist spectres with me to do this particular boss that i got from a map, costing me about 45 minutes to find going through several maps.


I myself dont have a problem with staying alive on this boss, i get dmg but not much - as long i dont get caught by all the animated weapons, and they are easy to stay away from.

But then despite the hitpoints, resistances and regen, sadly my spectres die and the zombies are dwindeled downn by skulls,fb and animated weapons - even though i use convocate and a rejuv totem to pull em out en let em regen a bit quickly before letting them attack again.


Once the spectres die, its over, no way to continue the fight or handle the pletoria of animated weapons and skulls.

Now i know this map isnt supposed to be easy. but can someone at ggg tell me how a summoner is supposed to deal with the loss of spectres and not being able to get new ones that are actually usable, given the socket colors you have to support them, without having to reroll colors so you can on the spot use the spectres at hand?

and furthermore, if zombies are totally maxed and out all nodes are taken, at gemlvl 22/20% quality and supported by 20/20% quality and have 85! resistances and said 11000 hitpoints,leech and regen - supported by multistrike/ added fire/empower lvl2/minion dmg and they still die pretty quickly on this boss - id want to ask ggg, how are you ever going to clear this particular content with a summoner?
(without taking the summon raging skulls build, wich i tried and dont like because its boring to me)

The thing is,once your spectres die you're losing the bulk of the dmg you can deal, the fight takes longer and then zombies start dying, you can resummon the zombies all you like, they will not kill the boss - ive tried for 45 minutes. but the spectres cannot be replaced, once they die, the map is undoable.

So, this flaw leads to people losing the ability to do content wich they traded for, or grinded for. the flaw being , spectre control/not being able to get replacements.

How is it fair that you cannot complete a map that you grinded/traded/rolled for because a skill wont let you?
If any other toon dies, you can just run back in and finish the job, the limitation being the gear/lvl and a build not made right.
But a summoner doesnt even have to die, if the spectres die, its just over.
To get replacement spectres i have to open ANOTHER map and lose the one im trying to complete in the first place.

Is this the way the skill is intended to work? you get 1 shot,thats it?
Seems a bit unfair to me. in the end a summoner has way more overhead costs running all those xtra maps just to get spectres, and hope that the content you actually want to do doesnt kill your spectres and make the rolled map useless.

Usually the spectres dont die very quickly, granted, but some content does kill them quickly, wich is less fun but also a challenge.
I would be fine with a challenge if it was fair, not the one shot deal you get even with 5 portals left, because those 5 remaining portals are useless if you need another map to get new spectres off.

And this makes the spectre build unfairly expensive.
I'd like to ask ggg to atleast comment on this for once, and please adress this problem, its really no fun playing endgame maps with a summoner like this.

Do something about the spectre lvl, so you can keep the map open and get spectres from elsewhere then another map because of the lvl cap spectres have. obviously lvl 68 spectres will not last very long on lvl 75 content- and its not as if lvl 75 maps drop so often you can afford to have them ruined in this fashion or merely use them as a place to get spectres to do other lvl 75 maps with.

a summoner is also kindof bound to certain spectre types because of the colors of their sockets, you cannot easily switch to melee spectres without having to recolor sockets, a big nono todo on some gear aswell if it requires offcolors. And this is also adding to atleast the feeling of it being unfair.

The game mechanic itself! is forcing me to spend more then others (maps/rolling colors), spend way more time then others (getting spectres)for what? for having one shot at a map, or even a timed mission from zana on a lvl 76 map, nevermind if your spectres die, itll take you 15 minutes to replace them, and itll cost you a map that maybe you could have run after the mission was over. (hope you made the timer)-(where others just respawn and jump in the map and still have a chance on completing the timed mission)


and then theres the silence, a lot of people have adressed and named this problem in several ways, but ggg doesnt seem to comment on it or have an answer.
Im saddened by this, because this is not the interaction i expect of ggg.
You guys seem genuinly intrested in the community and have active participation on your own fora, and i applaud that.
I also understand the forum is big and theres a lot of people expecting feedback or atleast a comment on a subject of any given thread started by GGG themselves.
But you dont in this case. and thats feels like a letdown. specially because this problem stems from closed beta and still hasnt been adressed or at the least hasnt been commented on except maybe for words by some devs in some threads and chats, that they are looking into it.
But you arent showing it,and certainly aren't feeding back on it in your own feedback channels.


** edited some typos.**


Still a fan, but please, give some feedback on your own feedback channels - and make the summoner class more fair, fix the spectre problem. There are wellthought out suggestions and ideas enough to be found in this tread - perhaps you could return the courtesy by having some form of answer.

Why do I have to run 5+ Temple maps to get my high level specters, so then I can do what I wanted to do for the evening?

Or how about this one, Re-zoning 5+ times to get a specific corpse to spawn.

Totally off-topic from what others have been saying, but I wanted to point out that I've found Raise Spectre useful for creating a decoy minion for a toon with absolutely zero summoning nodes. Spectre+Minion Life+Minion Damage goes a long way in distracting enemies - it's just a single spectre and it dies all the time, but it's easy to re-summon from practically any corpse (high-life mobs are better, obviously). Also it can kill stuff one-on-one if you get surprised by a lone enemy while you're AFK :)

Great skill, even for non-summoners. I wish there were an alternative (better than Animate Guardian) single tank minion skill for non-summoners, however. Crap damage is fine, just something to act as a decoy.

Don't know if this is common knowledge already but putting Raise Spectre in a Malachai's Artifice makes whichever spectre is raised by that gem apply Elemental Equilibrium at 60% effectiveness.

I assume it's because the ring has a hidden support gem applying the EE effect to whatever is socketed into it, meaning this behavior is almost certainly working as intended.

The question then is if there's a spell casting monster that can survive with zero supports...

Can i be the first one to say that i'm super excited about the prospect of new spectre choices in act 4? I've looked over the B-reel footage and there are several mobs that look very promising.

"

Bedrizzled wrote:

Now i know this map isnt supposed to be easy. but can someone at ggg tell me how a summoner is supposed to deal with the loss of spectres and not being able to get new ones that are actually usable, given the socket colors you have to support them, without having to reroll colors so you can on the spot use the spectres at hand?

It would be nice if we could "imprint" spectres onto the gem. One spell to save it, another to actually cast it. I know they've complained about people going and getting high level spectres and going to a low level area, and if that is actually a problem, cap the gem like desecrate. I mean people's spells don't get downgraded if they go to a lower level area, and if your worried about a 60ish character getting into a 80 map and grabbing spectres, make it take a level 20 gem to raise spectres 80 and above, and possibly even the level requirement to use a high level Raise Spectre Gem.

Summoners could use a lot of QoL changes, especially to Spectres and Guardians.

I collected quite a few suggestion for Raise Spectre on the beta forums, imo they could solve most problems with summoners and add more spice to the build diversity - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1273230

In short

Gem Quality need to be minion speed AND damage (Zombie is minion speed and health, since they are the tankier mobs dmg seem obvious for spectre)

Resummon feature -

Use player level as a max lvl spectre, so we cant boost our friends with high lvl spectre, but can in fact get good ones easier.

Along with a bunch of generel feedback on summoners, feel free to type your thoughts in the thread!

now that i've reentered the abusive relationship with my summoner, i thought i'd throw my opinions on the pile.

if you want to use spectres, you currently have two options:

- pigeonhole yourself for a specific mob type. that means getting the socket colours that a particular mob type needs and only ever using that mob. evangelists all over the place, terribly boring. the revenants feel very much like "oh, you want more valid spectres? alright, here's a second mob you can use".
pros: you can use an actual chest piece and do higher level content.
cons: getting that particular mob at an acceptable level is absurdly hard. what i did was play high level maps with another char and once i came across the right mobs (after hours sometimes), i logged on to the summoner and picked them up. but when one of them died, summoner time was over, back to the other char.

if you want to perpetuate this type of summoning, the single most useful/important qol improvement would be their ability to scale up in level. this would allow us to play summoner when we want to play summoner instead of having to wait for the stars to align.

but having two overpowered spectres and just a handful of "okay" choices (tentacle, sentinel, uhh...) just isn't particularly interesting to me. i'm more interested in option two:


- use tabula, pick up whatever seems fun, try to support it well and die all the time (i have 811 recorded deaths on my summoner). it's perfectly fine that not all mobs are equally strong as spectres, but very many mobs are being unnecessarily held back by their ai:
all of the "attack skill" archers - ice shot, burning arrow, lightning arrow, the new tornado shot zombie - are only useless because they mostly use default attacks instead of spamming their skill.
the porcupine artillery things - they fire one salvo doing admirable damage, and then they strut around doing absolutely nothing.
the autopierce shooty snakes - like to hang back out of sight and are generally super lazy.
i'm out of examples, but i've noticed so many wasted potential that would make the skill so much more interesting if mobs got a general behaviour/aggressiveness makeover while they are spectres.
the blackguard arcers don't do a whole lot of damage because their spell only arcs once, but they still make ok spectres because they go for the enemy and cast their stuff until he's dead. then they immediately find something else to cast at and go for it. that's the kind of behaviour i'd like to see on spectres in general, regardless of mob type.

another thing we'd need is some kind of information about what mobs do. do they attack or do they cast? do they have two base damage types, have %extra elemental damage or do they convert? which way? what's their damage effectiveness? i've used tentacle miscreations for i don't even know how long and i still have no idea what's going on there.

edit: another thing i'd like to see is replacing all instances of "increased minion life" with "increased minion life and energy shield", both for spectres and the animated guardian.