Immortal Call

The concept of the gem is just bad design.
Its duration is linked to endurance charges, which means the following:

1. If you can gain endurance charges faster than you can spend on this skill, then immortal call will be overpowered, because you are permanently invincible (current state of things)


2. If you cant gain endurance charges faster than you can spend on this skill (lets say enduring cry was nerfed alot), then immortal call will be useless, because you run danger of being caught vincible with a low amount of endurance charges on you (which means you take a lot more damage), as soon as immortal call runs out.


Option 2 only happens if you recharge significantly less charges than you use on immortal call.
If it is remotely close, you will still be able to maintain almost permanent invinciblity, which falls into option 1.

The current iteration of the gem is bound to be overpowered, or utterly useless, just looking at it from a design point of view.

Either remove it completely (which i would prefer, personally), or remake it to have a long cooldown.
A friend of mine is approaching the 20 second invinciblity mark, and even if the skill had 1 minute cooldown, that would still mean invincibility for 33% of the time, which still is overpowered.


If you want my friends skillbuild and itembuild, im sure he is willing to post them, but i think its really unnecessary, because it is just obvious from looking at the description that it is going to be abusable, or utterly bad (depending on whether you use up more charges or less).

Even if you guys nerfed the endurance charge build up by alot (and by alot, i mean nerfing it to the ground baby), people would still find ways to abuse it.

Im already thinking of a rarity/quantity find tank that uses molten shell to kill enemies, and whose charges are maintained by his party instead of himself.

They just skill shared charges and all continuously spam enduring cry in order to fill up the tanks endurance charges, after which he enduring cries a last time (to pull the enemies to himself) and use immortal call.

Even if you nerfed it to ridiculously low values (making it completely useless for casual gamers), hardcore gamers would still find a way to abuse it, until you nerf it so hard that it falls into option 2 (from my above argument), at which point its not gonna be used at all.

Just remove it, seriously.

"

gh0un wrote:

The concept of the gem is just bad design.
Its duration is linked to endurance charges, which means the following:

1. If you can gain endurance charges faster than you can spend on this skill, then immortal call will be overpowered, because you are permanently invincible (current state of things)


2. If you cant gain endurance charges faster than you can spend on this skill (lets say enduring cry was nerfed alot), then immortal call will be useless, because you run danger of being caught vincible with a low amount of endurance charges on you (which means you take a lot more damage), as soon as immortal call runs out.


Option 2 only happens if you recharge significantly less charges than you use on immortal call.
If it is remotely close, you will still be able to maintain almost permanent invinciblity, which falls into option 1.

The current iteration of the gem is bound to be overpowered, or utterly useless, just looking at it from a design point of view.

Either remove it completely (which i would prefer, personally), or remake it to have a long cooldown.
A friend of mine is approaching the 20 second invinciblity mark, and even if the skill had 1 minute cooldown, that would still mean invincibility for 33% of the time, which still is overpowered.

Just remove it, seriously.

You are never invinsible with this gem, you still take damage from all sources of elemental damage.

Once there are a larger mix of mobs, this gem will probably be more balanced. Alternately it could give a penalty to resists while in use, but I don't see this a requirement.

In my opinion, this skill is just fine. As a build using it, would be very vulnerable to other players with elemental damage, while not being able to dish out a lot of damage themselves. (When there is only one person around).

In PvE, it doesn't really matter. Sure, you'd plow down all physical melee mobs with no danger to your health.. but so does every other build out there.

Ranged mobs are usually the real danger, and you still take damage from ranged casters and chaos mobs.

"

jawsofhana wrote:

"

gh0un wrote:

The concept of the gem is just bad design.
Its duration is linked to endurance charges, which means the following:

1. If you can gain endurance charges faster than you can spend on this skill, then immortal call will be overpowered, because you are permanently invincible (current state of things)


2. If you cant gain endurance charges faster than you can spend on this skill (lets say enduring cry was nerfed alot), then immortal call will be useless, because you run danger of being caught vincible with a low amount of endurance charges on you (which means you take a lot more damage), as soon as immortal call runs out.


Option 2 only happens if you recharge significantly less charges than you use on immortal call.
If it is remotely close, you will still be able to maintain almost permanent invinciblity, which falls into option 1.

The current iteration of the gem is bound to be overpowered, or utterly useless, just looking at it from a design point of view.

Either remove it completely (which i would prefer, personally), or remake it to have a long cooldown.
A friend of mine is approaching the 20 second invinciblity mark, and even if the skill had 1 minute cooldown, that would still mean invincibility for 33% of the time, which still is overpowered.

Just remove it, seriously.

You are never invinsible with this gem, you still take damage from all sources of elemental damage.

Doesnt matter in the slightest.
It makes you immune to one of three possible sources of damage (physical damage, elemental damage and chaos damage is all i can think of right now).
You get this immunity for free.

As you dont have to specialize your character towards armor anymore, you can focus all of your gear/skillbuild towards elemental resistances.
Getting maximum elemental resistances isnt an issue if you dont have to balance it out with armor etc.

It completely diminishes the difficulty of the game.

I can make myself immune to physical damage for 7.4 seconds with my duelist, even though i didnt even focus on increasing immortal calls duration.
My build is a frenzy charge/full dps build, but i get 7.4 seconds of immunity for free.

I get endurance charges for free aswell due to warlords mark (which i have to use for my build to work), which basically means that i get permanent immunity to physical damage in chaos without having to customize my char towards it.


The gem is overpowered even if you dont skill towards optimizing it, and you are telling me its fine.
Your bias is clouding your judgement.
I can use something overpowered and admit that its overpowered, and its clearly the case with immortal call.

Completely apart from questions about whether it's OP or not (which is more due to how endurance charges are gained, imo - more on that later), I just feel like getting +0.01 second per charge from leveling it is utterly pathetic. With a full 7 endurance charges, leveling it up should get you at least like an extra third of a second (+0.05s / charge) or so...

I don't like the mechanics of this skill. I think it needs to be reworked completely.

There just seems to be no way to balance it because setting the duration too short will make it tedious and useless, setting it too long will make it overpowered, and there's hardly anything in between.

I don´t think i would use this Skill, like some People already said you can evade Physical Damage whit other Skills for example my Minions or Molten Shell^^, the Real Danger in my Opinion is Magic Damage (oh and Puncture that HURTS!), i think it would be good if that would Raise the Max Magic Resistance for a Short duration and Halves the Physical Damage (or something similar, also not Invincible more like Surviving).

I dont Fear Physical Damage cause many Mobs dont deal Physical damage or they got Blasted from my Minions, i have only 35 Armour (my damn Shoes!).



/Edit

So now i don´t have any Armour and i am nearly in Merciless, the Flesh of my Minions will protect me!

i think to make this skill fun, you need to give it a flat duration, change the cost of casting it, and possibly make the cast time instant

for example, set it to 3 seconds, and make it cost 40% of your current health, and give it maybe a 6sec cooldown

that might make it useful for builds with high lifeleech, it would be very strong, but if you overdo it you end up killing yourself

another option is something like complete immunity for 4 seconds with a long cooldown, with no particular cost of casting; its pretty boring i know, but would still see more use than currently imo


as it is, its a question of it being highlevel, and 20% quality, in which case its retarded

and this is just my personal opinion, but its very boring to use, at first i thought it looked pretty cool to pop now and then, but as i found out, i could only get about 1-2 hits out on its duration (about 2 seconds at 3 end charges)

just making the cast time instant will be a big deal, but increasing base duration and lowering potential duration will make it more widely used imo

Played this a bit on my bloodmagic/life leech mar which uses Endurance Cry and Warlord's Mark for generating charges (can have up to 5 charges btw).

Can't find use for it and I tried really hard (;p) since it sounds like a good thing. I guess it could be used for getting that extra blow in when you're fighting a boss (but how often does that happen?) or escaping near-death situations, but it really doesn't work for me. Instead (when I'm low on life) I would rather use leap slam to run away or to actually heal up, i.e. i've got life leech of 11% atm and +26 life per hit support gem, so with 650 dps or so I can earn a 100 life per monster that I leap slam into.

Immorta Call sounds useful, but there are alternatives out there that will let you deal damage, heal AND retain your endurance charges, like the example above.

With immortal call I use up all my charges, get a few hits in and a few second later i'm still low on life, with worse defence and getting my ass kicked.

Can anyone tell me what +quality and additional levels do with this skill?