Dual Strike

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Vipermagi wrote:

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jna wrote:

even Q auras are useful for all. =p

Quality Auras are largely useless for solo players; the only exception is a summoner, and even then it's questionable because the AoE increases a bunch with levels anyways. Far from 'all'.
(Ice Shot, Burning Arrow, Lightning Strike, Arctic Breath, Blood Magic, Life Leech, Reduced Mana)

There's already a million Gems that just grant 0.shit% IAS or 0.crap% Damage. That's why most Gems have 'useful' Quality bonuses; because they're intensely generic.

So u prefer a 0.crap% crit? =S
I agree with you that they are very generic. But the point was to at least have some kind of use for all users of the skill, no matter the build. Q auras can have some use when you are with a party, no matter your build. Like I said some are more useful.. some are less..
All the skills you mentioned have some "useful" Q for all, only blood magic that would be completly unuseful for CI builds (cos a CI char will never be on a low life state), but I guess ppl don't use blood magic with CI. =P

Edit: just to clarify, I not talking about how useful the qualities are, but how they can have at least some kind of utility for everyone using it, no matter what build you are on. Ofc, some qualities will be more useful for certain builds and less for others. But crit = ZERO use for any build with resolute technique.

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Vipermagi wrote:

Life Leech's Quality does nothing for Vaal Pact users.

I agree with you here, it could be changed too.

For the others, like I said before, I'm not talking about how nice or terrible they are.

For dual strike, it's a nice skill and it's a main skill for a lot of DW builds. But sadly, the quality of DS have no use for non-crit builds with RT.

And well, the bonus could be just something equivalent to the 80%crit. 30-40%dmg maybe? =]

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jna wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

Life Leech's Quality does nothing for Vaal Pact users.

I agree with you here, it could be changed too.

For the others, like I said before, I'm not talking about how nice or terrible they are.

For dual strike, it's a nice skill and it's a main skill for a lot of DW builds. But sadly, the quality of DS have no use for non-crit builds with RT.

And well, the bonus could be just something equivalent to the 80%crit. 30-40%dmg maybe? =]

Leaving the bonus several times more effective than other intended high damage gems. On an attack that already double dips on flat damage bonuses and gains significant damage bonus per level.

The bonyus is fine as it is. It's something you want if you want to crit (why wouldn't you want to crit as a dual striker? If you're in the str area you might as well level cleave... once they fix whatever is going on with its damage effectiveness bonuses) and something you don't NEED to feel like the gem is perfect if you don't want to crit.

Critical Strike from quality is a theme for dex gems

If you want faster go double, if you want harder go dual. They have niches, and an underlying theme. Critical synergizes so well with dex (because accuracy) that you might as well go all the way if you're going to be using the stat.

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Autocthon wrote:

Leaving the bonus several times more effective than other intended high damage gems.

Oh my, that's exactly my point... But this is not a case of "several times" better or worse, it's just ZERO.
I didn't say it should be more effective, I said equivalent.. And 30%phys dmg is several times more effective? Take a look at heavy strike bonus.
Double Strike for dual wielding don't looks like a good idea: "This skill will only attack with the main hand weapon while dual wielding".

Hmm, I think crit is a theme for int. +crit chance, +crit dmg gems are blue, most of crit nodes are near the Witch, power charges gives crit..

But now seriously, do you really want this bonus to be a crit chance that bad, right? lol

Watched Irbird's stream Friday night. He has 50k dual strike melee splash with RT. Quite amazing that you can get this high figures without crit. He was bursting through 2man Shipyard like butter without any concerns of survivability since he has so high constant damage. He used axes instead daggers for high damage base.

I 4l tested Dual strike+melee splash and compared it to Cleave damage and the result was:

a) Cleave 1.5k.
b) Dual strike melee splash 2.8k.

Basically what I am trying to say is that - Dual strike is the new Cleave. Un-nerfed, op and broken. way.

Would be nice move from GGG if they would lower the damage output of Dual strike base damage by atleast 50%.


Hope I didnt ruin Irbird's morning.

Cheers,
Cudez


ps. forgot to discuss reflect. Anywho, he can counter reflect with IR+Grace+Granite+Determination+Life Leech gem. Yet, he somehow still manages to cut through mobs like butter.

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jna wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

Leaving the bonus several times more effective than other intended high damage gems.

Oh my, that's exactly my point... But this is not a case of "several times" better or worse, it's just ZERO.
I didn't say it should be more effective, I said equivalent.. And 30%phys dmg is several times more effective? Take a look at heavy strike bonus.
Double Strike for dual wielding don't looks like a good idea: "This skill will only attack with the main hand weapon while dual wielding".

Hmm, I think crit is a theme for int. +crit chance, +crit dmg gems are blue, most of crit nodes are near the Witch, power charges gives crit..

But now seriously, do you really want this bonus to be a crit chance that bad, right? lol

Crit chance is a theme in the heavy hitting Dex gems. And heavy strike gets a 15% attack speed.

Dual strike is fine, it's quality bonus is effective but non-essential, and it's already the highest damage skill in the game.

Wrote few posts ago some reflections on the skill - have played this RT dual strike to 81lvl now and heres new perspectives.

I think the AoE damage is fine now - even with RT specced. You do have a nice aoe, but the area is a bit small'ish (comparing to LS and Spectral throw for example).

However, the fact that its completely possible to avoid physical reflect at 50k aoe is still abit gamebreaking in my honest opinion.

Nevertheless, I think its not the skill that has abit high damage base, but its actually Soul Taker that is the broken element. With Soul Taker I could propably drop about 30-40% of my old passives at 81 by skipping mana and aura nodes that I need for a decent mana base to maintain Dual strike spam. Consider that, with Soul Taker I could for example take one extra Aura; or just drop the nodes and take life+damage instead.

Please do take my opinions with a grain of salt - I havent tested other skill I refer here properly to have solid theorycraft.

has the tooltip damage halved for anyone else after new patch?

It only shows half the DPS for me too but the damage itself seems to be the same as before so apparently only the tooltip has changed.



In case it should be relevant for the investigation: i am running Dual Strike in a 5-link with melee physical damage on full life, increased critical damage. melee splash and increased accuracy.