Looking for feedback on the current state of racing / Season 8

I had flameblast and flammability drop for me today on scion. Too bad I wasn't using the swords. LOL

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tagpt wrote:

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janimauk wrote:

if you kill blue pack at 14:10 after race start using only icenova without support gem you will find sledge and mallet

What idiot would kill blue packs with unsupported ice nova with added lightning sitting on his inventory?

Although i can't find the glorious moment i did that, you have to understand, ice nova is my favourite skill in the game.
Sometimes i just get this urge to ice nova, its stronger than me. There's no reasoning behind it, i just have to ice nova and i won't rest until i spam ice nova 3/4 times as my brain gets filled with dopamine and i reach nirvana.

I once heard of a great legend (named after a greek goddess) that killed life regen rares with unsupported ice nova. He is my hero and i could only hope to reach his level one day. I will never reach it but its ok, it gives me something to strive for, for the rest of my life.

Long live Ice Nova. Amen.

That was beautiful

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tagpt wrote:

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janimauk wrote:

if you kill blue pack at 14:10 after race start using only icenova without support gem you will find sledge and mallet

What idiot would kill blue packs with unsupported ice nova with added lightning sitting on his inventory?

Although i can't find the glorious moment i did that, you have to understand, ice nova is my favourite skill in the game.
Sometimes i just get this urge to ice nova, its stronger than me. There's no reasoning behind it, i just have to ice nova and i won't rest until i spam ice nova 3/4 times as my brain gets filled with dopamine and i reach nirvana.

I once heard of a great legend (named after a greek goddess) that killed life regen rares with unsupported ice nova. He is my hero and i could only hope to reach his level one day. I will never reach it but its ok, it gives me something to strive for, for the rest of my life.

Long live Ice Nova. Amen.

theres no need to get hostile and sarcastic over simple tip =_= damn dude chill we are all part of one big family here in race forums. eventhough our parents no longer care about us the blood bond between siblings should last forever

jani remember the guy with unsupported ice nova that got 10 blue packs at every zone because of that
this is called special strat

blood summer is broken as hell movementspeed for frenzy charges aoe and aoe dmg

you are already at a disadvantage when u dont take the sword because you dont get a quicksilver on lvl 1

i love descent champions those are really easy points but i dont think that was the ggg intent

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jstq wrote:

jani remember the guy with unsupported ice nova that got 10 blue packs at every zone because of that
this is called special strat

how could i forget

I'm not much of a forum participant but I'd like to share some thoughts from the perspective of a relatively new racer. I apologize for the length of this post but I didn't have time to write a short one.

I started racing around mid season 6 and I wanted to highlight mechanics I find pretty discouraging / lacking the necessary attention. In general I really like racing and the drive to get better and improve is probably one of the biggest driving factors that keeps me playing. I apologize that this post might seem negative but its easier to point out the things I would like to see changed than the other way around.

To make this post seem less intimidating I have broken it down into a couple major categories each with its own arguably clever title.

For context, I am primarily a duelist racer and of the ~2.5 seasons played I have just shy of 1000 career points. The opinions below are just that and are heavily biased from the perspective of a melee duelist.

My Major Frustrations

Time is Money, but not points - Points per hour and race efficiency
I find it particularly irksome that getting 5-10th place duelist in a d:c is actually more points than 2nd duelist in a 3-hour party. Granted You can be pretty far out of first place to accomplish the latter but when I set aside such a large chunk of time after work (basically my whole night) I mainly just end up wishing the race was a D:C so I could get the same number of points and have an extra 2:20 on my hands. I understand that ability to sit down for three hours is not a very skillful activity but a cost benefit analysis of points earned in a three hour seems to indicate my time might be better spent doing something else.

Pots: half full, empty? its too small to tell and I got 1 shot anyway - Endless Ledge
Not having a guaranteed means of getting a medium pot (and large etc) is incredibly frustrating. I feel that bad pot RNG is not a valid reason that you should have to suffer and in general can lead to a really really inconsistent and painful experience not indicative of racer skill.

Also pack size and blue packs is enough RNG when it comes to monsters. For the love of god please stop me from having the possibility of dealing with non stop devourers and dischargers in terrible terrible ledge zones when there's someone out there mercilessly pounding away at crabs and monkeys. Certain monsters just shouldn't be in this monster pool, but if you are going to keep them, please make them consistent from player to player. Getting a bad zone in ledge is just one of the worst feelings that can really spoil my attitude and race experience.

Also a huge quality of life improvement would be to force all ledges to go up, or at least sideways. I cant believe there is a single person that would disagree with you if you made that change.

Lastly, the fact that there's really very little opportunity for melee in this races is also kind of a bummer. I have absolutely no enjoyment playing my favorite class (duelist) as I feel doomed to spectral throw or terribly under-perform, both of which prevent me from having fun. Instead I have switched to Templar which I find myself having fun at but dont like that I feel forced to play a class I'd rather not. EL is by far one of my least favorite races.

I got you this blue pack, please proceed to run away - Descent
Blue packs in the early stages of descent can be really crappy for melee classes. Blue fire dogs can destroy me and blue molten shell goats are perhaps the most unfortunate thing that can happen. Blue packs are rare enough, but when you actually have to skip such a large percentage based on monster type or mods its just really depressing. I feel like ranged classes don't have this issue as they simply laugh at the aforementioned mobs while they rain death from relative safety.

Also I despise the cruelty that is molten shell. Two of these explosions can kill you. Just the other day I started a cleave on two white goats right next to me not realizing that in the split second before my attack they oh so subtlety began raising their arms. By the time my backswing animation completed I realized my mistake and the molten rings that spelled out my certain death appeared just as my sword began slicing toward them. RIP full health me.

Exile Rights Campaign - Class Equality - D:C
First off I must say that I would take last season's DC over this season's any day. While cleaning up the first few zones is nice, I feel like I'm doomed from the start when I look at the past event ladder and see that 10 of the top 20 are witches. To me this is incredibly discouraging as its basically a clear slap in the face that my class is not as good. The movement speed from the swords and disparity in the classes makes it incredibly hard to pace myself as I cant expect myself to keep up with leveling or progression and combining that with the 20 minute cut just makes it so much harder for me to determine what my pace should be and when I need to speed up or slow down.

An effort to help balance classes has clearly backfired and killed the competitive spirit of this race now that every class is bending over backwards to take advantage of new mechanics, allowing several classes to soar above the rest.

This whole fiasco could have been completely avoided if several weeks before the season started, a couple trial races were open to the entire community to get some preliminary feedback and give racers a chance to adjust to the new format and timeslot. I acknowledge that GGG doesn't have the internal resources to test every possible strategy, but when you have an entire community of willing and able participants why not take advantage of this? You did this with cutthroat races, and those didnt have records or demi's on the line.

Breaking the demi wall - The giant skill barrier
Since I play almost exclusively duelist, Ive gotten pretty good and have had a few finishes top 5 in class and even more so top 10 in class. However the level difference between one of those runs and the 1st duelist is usually pretty significant. And in general it just seems like there's such a huge wall separating about the top 10-20 finishers from those below.

Bridging the gap from being just a good racer to a top racer just seems really huge and sometimes pretty intimidating. I acknowledge this is not something easily remedied but if there was some mechanic in place that bracketed out the "pro" players from the "amateur" ones, and attempted to reward newer players attempting to get good, it might help motivate more casual players to keep at racing.

Perhaps if there was a lesser reward for a given race type (say the sig) that is given to the highest in class who has previously not won this award it might help provide casual racers with a more realistic goal and sense of accomplishment, albeit a limited one at that.

Missed it by that Much - Double Punishment
For the normal races (hc parented) its bad enough that dying basically puts you out of the running for a top spot, but the loss of points makes it seem like I'm getting punished twice. Also the most frustrated I've ever been was when I died with less than 15 minutes remaining in the 150 minute no proj and technically still ended up first in class, throwing my first ever opportunity at a demi away. (Thanks substantial phys powerful crit rare).

I could see an argument both ways for making all races give or take away points on death but lean towards being more lenient as lets be honest, dsync does and always will happen. (not that all deaths are dsync related but you cant ignore the possibility). A happy medium might be rewarding half points on death or only points for major milestones such as boss kills or major act/quest completion. The fact that a 2 second lapse of judgement or misc-click can cost you valuable points and time might be a bit off-putting for the casual community.

Land Down Under - Men At Work
The balancing act that is real life and gaming life is a clear struggle that has already been brought up several times in this thread. I acknowledge that its unreasonable to expect that the stars align for every person and they get the opportunity to participate in several races a day. Also the advantage of "no-lifers" (as i believe they have been referred to) will be ever present. A possible means to counteract this might be some sort of double points or flat point bonus for your "first race of the day" upon reaching a specific threshold. (IE you can't just create a character and die to hillock). I imagine a mechanic like this would go a long way to satisfy the working racers of wraeclast. (Who interestingly enough are the ones with the money to spend on MTX'es and GGG stands to benefit the most from pleasing).

Do you even shrine? - Burst Races
I have only ever finished first in class in once burst race. And it involved about 20 blue packs and 5+ shrines. I fully expect that never to happen again. I understand that the best racers will always find a way to land near the top spots and acknowledge that the existing mechanic of shrines gives a chance for amateur racers like myself to places well but I don't know if that's necessarily a positive thing. With troll layouts and the lack or presence of shrines it leads to a really disparate enjoyment level. Would you rather have a relatively consistent and moderately enjoyable experience? or occasionally have terrible run in exchange for occasionally getting an awesome run? I tend to lean towards consistency.


Jesus this is a long post. I don't blame you if you don't read as I'm not sure I would.

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CreativeAspect wrote:

Perhaps if there was a lesser reward for a given race type (say the sig) that is given to the highest in class who has previously not won this award it might help provide casual racers with a more realistic goal and sense of accomplishment, albeit a limited one at that.

The point bracket prizes aren't enough?

I disagree with rewarding people who have previously not won anything. The prize pool is diluted as it is. The only thing that should motivate people to be competitive is their own need to improve. I hate the whole carrot-on-a-stick mentality and it really needs to go.

Every single time we introduce a tangible reward, people find ways to exploit or game the system. Look at S6 and such. Tell me if adding more rewards will incentivize you more? Because you certainly won't win when existing racers who are far better than you will easily make new accounts to acquire this new "reward" - if it is that valuable. And if it isn't of any worth, you wouldn't be racing for it anyway.

I'd even argue that we need less demigods. They hold no prestige anymore because of how often they're handed out. Only the alt-art ones mean anything.

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CreativeAspect wrote:

I'm not much of a forum participant but I'd like to share some thoughts from the perspective of a relatively new racer. I apologize for the length of this post but I didn't have time to write a short one.

I started racing around mid season 6 and I wanted to highlight mechanics I find pretty discouraging / lacking the necessary attention. In general I really like racing and the drive to get better and improve is probably one of the biggest driving factors that keeps me playing. I apologize that this post might seem negative but its easier to point out the things I would like to see changed than the other way around.

Thanks a lot for this post. Read the entire thing a couple of times. It's very nice to hear input from a somewhat newer racer. It's good to know that even players of all experience share some of the same concerns, though they might not all be to the same extent. I really agree that consistency in some circumstances is very nice. Really looking forward to being able to talk about some of these subjects. :)

The upcoming podcast we are now doing the weapon topics so I will be talking about the current state of races on the next next podcast.

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CreativeAspect wrote:

Also pack size and blue packs is enough RNG when it comes to monsters. For the love of god please stop me from having the possibility of dealing with non stop devourers and dischargers in terrible terrible ledge zones when there's someone out there mercilessly pounding away at crabs and monkeys.

Making Endless Ledge Fixed [Map] Seed & Fixed Monster Seed seems like a very good idea. While i'm tired of hearing people complain about EL, if everyone were getting the same map seed, and more importantly, monster seed, then at least RNG is far lessened, it's more of a skill comparison. I'd much, much rather see EL turn into Fixed Monster Seed, than it simply getting nerfed monsters.

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The movement speed from the swords and disparity in the classes makes it incredibly hard to pace myself as I cant expect myself to keep up with leveling or progression and combining that with the 20 minute cut just makes it so much harder for me to determine what my pace should be and when I need to speed up or slow down.

When in doubt, just keep progressingg. The more advanced version: compare your level to the next zone level.