Official thread about ideas & fixes for pvp

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kevshien wrote:

The real problem here is the damage scaling in PvP. 80k dps skills vs 10k life(at most) basically mathematically equates battles lasting 1/8th of a second even before damage reduction is applied.

IMO, the solution is simple: a damage downscale. "As players enter PvP mode, their skills will deal only 60% of their usual damage." No more crit/molten/cast-on-death 1 shot buillshit.

But the thing is, DPS doesnt really equate to the ratio you're suggesting. Its flat damage without the attack speed factored in that matters. No RT build is going to do more than 10k phys damage in one hit. Crit builds def will. This brings me back to the point of lowering crit multi.

On a side note, I agree with you on the cast on death and molten 1 shot bullshit. That needs to be toned down and given the RF treatment. As it is, theres no skill involved in PVP, its just RNG to see whether or not you can block or evade the molten shell if you're a melee character. There just simply isn't any counterplay to molten except to pop it with traps but thats too... inefficient.

If possible, i think GGG should make a DOTAlike PVP environment for POE in the future. POE has so various kinds of skills and strategies for PVP. It will be nice to see Streamers streaming their battles for like 30 minutes for each battle. IMO, this new type of PVP can be called
"Destroy the Kuduku". Like Dota, there are 2 teams, each team has 5 members(90+only) protecting a main tower - a Kuduku that can deal damage on opposite team. That will be really awesome because many fans of Dota are playing POE concurrently. They will be interested in this type of PVP, i believe. This will make PVP in POE become more social and can unite everyone instead of making people hate each other so much like now. It can also be considered as a competition for PVP ladder too. Each member in a team will receive 1 point for each time the team wins, and receive 0 point if the team loses. Minimum requirement is 90+ lvl to prevent cheating people from creating 9 low level characters and mine points themselves.
I believe the last goal of GGG in POE is PVP, and GGG will take any chance to make it better. POE has such a huge potential resource for PVP like DOTA. Make PVP successful like DOTA please! It is worth trying^^

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behakungfu wrote:

If possible, i think GGG should make a DOTAlike PVP environment for POE

...Then it would be a MOBA?

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pianokingx3 wrote:

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kevshien wrote:

The real problem here is the damage scaling in PvP. 80k dps skills vs 10k life(at most) basically mathematically equates battles lasting 1/8th of a second even before damage reduction is applied.

IMO, the solution is simple: a damage downscale. "As players enter PvP mode, their skills will deal only 60% of their usual damage." No more crit/molten/cast-on-death 1 shot buillshit.

But the thing is, DPS doesnt really equate to the ratio you're suggesting. Its flat damage without the attack speed factored in that matters. No RT build is going to do more than 10k phys damage in one hit. Crit builds def will. This brings me back to the point of lowering crit multi.

On a side note, I agree with you on the cast on death and molten 1 shot bullshit. That needs to be toned down and given the RF treatment. As it is, theres no skill involved in PVP, its just RNG to see whether or not you can block or evade the molten shell if you're a melee character. There just simply isn't any counterplay to molten except to pop it with traps but thats too... inefficient.

I agree, it's more of a damage per hit:life ratio situation. I guess DPS would be better compared to sustain(life/ES per second), but even that the ratio is fucked. Nerfing crit would seem like a solution on the surface, but it'll end up just making every melee user go RT: shadow class would be dead, flicker would be obsolete, every1 would just reroll marauder/duelist/templar for RT and stack phys = one-dimensional build diversity, SNORE.

Just scale down the damage in PvP-enabled areas, 1 shotting would be toned down, and we'd all enjoy battles where RNG is less of a factor due to a wider variance stretched by longer duration.

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pianokingx3 wrote:

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behakungfu wrote:

If possible, i think GGG should make a DOTAlike PVP environment for POE

...Then it would be a MOBA?

Imagine POE is a tree, and this DOTAlike PVP is a branch of it. This type of PVP is inspired by DOTA and manipulated by POE's own content.

I would like GGG to help people that hate cursing and detest being cursed in PVP. I think the passive tree should have a node named "Hex Prohibition" which will likely be: You can not be cursed, but you can not use curses. We have Hex Master, which is very malice and cool. Why shouldn't we have Hex Prohibition?
By the way, there is one thing i would recommend the passive tree to be changed: The "Bloodless" node, which grants us the ability of preventing enemy from leeching life from us, also adds 8% max life. I think it is not logical. If bloodless, then why add blood there? Instead, the node should be renamed to "Anti-Life Stealth" or something else. It should not be named Bloodless, which means having no blood or having very little blood. This problem also inspires me to think that "Bloodless", which is a very cool name, should be a node that reduces a large amount of your life point, but grants u a very special ability: Can not bleed when punctured. It means u will have less max life, but u can't not be bled. That sounds logical to "Bloodless" right?

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kevshien wrote:

Nerfing crit would seem like a solution on the surface, but it'll end up just making every melee user go RT: shadow class would be dead, flicker would be obsolete, every1 would just reroll marauder/duelist/templar for RT and stack phys = one-dimensional build diversity, SNORE.

Shadow class will not be dead! If we nerf critical builds by adding max cap to critical strike and critical multiplier, GGG will create new unique items that increase the max caps, and Shadow class wiil still be very good in PVP.

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kevshien wrote:

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pianokingx3 wrote:

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kevshien wrote:

The real problem here is the damage scaling in PvP. 80k dps skills vs 10k life(at most) basically mathematically equates battles lasting 1/8th of a second even before damage reduction is applied.

IMO, the solution is simple: a damage downscale. "As players enter PvP mode, their skills will deal only 60% of their usual damage." No more crit/molten/cast-on-death 1 shot buillshit.

But the thing is, DPS doesnt really equate to the ratio you're suggesting. Its flat damage without the attack speed factored in that matters. No RT build is going to do more than 10k phys damage in one hit. Crit builds def will. This brings me back to the point of lowering crit multi.

On a side note, I agree with you on the cast on death and molten 1 shot bullshit. That needs to be toned down and given the RF treatment. As it is, theres no skill involved in PVP, its just RNG to see whether or not you can block or evade the molten shell if you're a melee character. There just simply isn't any counterplay to molten except to pop it with traps but thats too... inefficient.

I agree, it's more of a damage per hit:life ratio situation. I guess DPS would be better compared to sustain(life/ES per second), but even that the ratio is fucked. Nerfing crit would seem like a solution on the surface, but it'll end up just making every melee user go RT: shadow class would be dead, flicker would be obsolete, every1 would just reroll marauder/duelist/templar for RT and stack phys = one-dimensional build diversity, SNORE.

Just scale down the damage in PvP-enabled areas, 1 shotting would be toned down, and we'd all enjoy battles where RNG is less of a factor due to a wider variance stretched by longer duration.

If damage is nerfed overall its only natural that the only approach would be to go critical. Not the other way around like you suggested where everyone drops it in favor of RT if criticals were softened. Having 0 burst damage as a RT user you rely on consistant and overall weaker hits then a critical user is capable of. If we all did 5 damage and one guy could only do 5 while the other guy had a 500-1000% multiplier and could multiply his "across the board pvp reduced" 5 damage...he would greatly out dps the next guy. Its that simple, criticals should be more like Diablo2 and less like Diablow 3: jay wilsons fucked up failed franchise edition. When you have people doing anywhere from 2-10x their damage potential per hit it's really a no brainer that an overall reduction wont change shit.

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