so proud right now.... oh wait a minute!

YEAH! I hit level 20 in a race! my personal best!

yes it was a 2-hours race were people were getting to level 35, but I'm still so very proud.

.... until I go and check the race points.


4 miserable points? really?

and the really sad part is, I didn't find a working link in "events" to this one.
no description.
the rules might have said "get 4 points for level 15", and I didn't know.
if I did, I would have just safely farmed the Merveil cave, instead of risking a Merveil kill, and running all the way to farm Western Forest. something I didn't do in a race EVER until today.

so yes 20 is a milestone, but I think you guys should reconsider.
make rewards more than mere peanuts, so people who can't take every race on the board - would feel rewarded too.

why not get points for finishing in class top 100, out of 700 in class and almost 3k in the race?
why not give the top guys more points, and scale better downward so people like me can get an extra point or two for our effort?

please GGG, consider changing your points system towards season 6.
and please have more than a handful of races actually have a description.

i think you should just try to improve if you want more points.

"

janimauk wrote:

i think you should just try to improve if you want more points.

missed the point (pun intended).

if a level 15 guy and I got the same points, then why the heck did I bother running to level 20? besides personal pride, that is.

if someone who finished 1000th in the race, and I got the same number of points - why didn't I just "chill out" and casually farm a safe zone until the race ends, to finish 999th?

I took higher risk. I almost REEPed a few times. I think I should get more points.

i think you should just try to improve if you want more points.

"

Pam wrote:

i think you should just try to improve if you want more points.

ok let me phrase this in an even more clear way:

for someone like me to get anywhere in the season, I would have to win every race.
why? because while some can pretty much enter everything, I can't.
I'm an "occasional racer", not a "professional".

giving more points per race to more people, and in relation to how well you finished compared to how many people you raced against - will be a huge thing to me.

the top guys would get more points per race too, and this also means season 6 should have awards for >1000 points, and maybe more rewards for the 1-1000 range, that aren't so far between.

think about this, instead of the stupid usual "git gud" argument.

I think you got a point. Ignoring the troll comments, I think it is a little bit strange how people get the same amount of points for reaching lvl 20 as they would get for, say, lvl 16.

I think a 1-10 point bracket just isn't sufficient enough for racing. Why not have a 1-100 point bracket per race and simply increase the amount of points required per race reward by times 10?

That way you can have more point brackets for players who struggle to consistently hit first or second bracket and on top of that give people the (fake) impression that they have accomplished more (even if it only has a psychological effect and isn't qualitatively much different really.)

I've already said this before but I'll say it again, racing has to be made more encouraging and accessible the lower skilled players. Most streamers and top racers won't ever think about this because they all live in their circlejerk worlds and simply lack perspective in that regard.

This thread demonstrates perfectly what I mean, someone makes a valid argument and instead of being taken seriously they are told to either "gtfo" or "get good".

But that's missing the point. Racing got hyped alot this season so the numbers are still high, but unless races manage to draw in new players continously we will be back to season 4 sub 300 players per race numbers in no time.

and most of it is the result of this elitist and circlejerky attitude of some of the community figures and people who give direct feedback to GGG. You might aswell say "we don't want new players to get into racing, lettuce circlejerk in peace."

I don't even care if that makes me the bad guy now, it's the truth.

edit: And just for all the munchkins out there who don't understand what I mean:

Level 34: 100 points
Level 33-32 : 80 points
Level 31-29: 70 points
Level 28-25: 60 points
Level 24-22: 50 points
Level 21-20: 45 points
Level 19-18: 40 points
Level 17-15: 35 points
Level 14-12: 30 points
etc..

Just as an example, the point values would obviously be subject to change, but the point is that giving lower skilled players more reachable goals for a few extra points can have a great psychological effect whilst not impacting the top of the ladder in any way.

Another problem with points is the increasing gap from unique to unique, which is a terribly designed system since players are essentially punished for accumulating a lot of points.

This is even more obvious when you look at the rewards this season, there is really not much of a point in racing on the same account past 360 points (or 135 points respectively). On purely pragmatic grounds you are better off just making an alt account to farm lower level uniques. Any reward system that encourages players to make alternate accounts to farm easier rewards is a bad system.

In essence, what I'm trying to say is that you should be rewarded more for doing well, not less.

And I know this is already a huge wall of text and most people probably won't read it and I'm sure I'll get some "tl;dr"'s, but what I want to add to that is that last season when I made this exact same point people more or less dismissed my argument by saying "yeah but you get alt art demi god for top 20 so..".

But the alt art demis are not part of the reward system, they are external to the reward system. The reward system itself is still bad, it doesn't really matter that there is an external factor that might encourage people to keep racing despite the terrible reward system, as that would still be the case even if the reward system wasn't bad and it only applies to very few people to begin with (20 to be precise).

"

johnKeys wrote:

if a level 15 guy and I got the same points, then why the heck did I bother running to level 20? besides personal pride, that is.

The answer to that specific question is: Because that is the only way for you to get the practice needed to reach lvl 21 consistently and earn more points consistently.


Still, I do agree with you and SlixSC. They already scaled up the number of players whose deaths would be announced in any hardcore league. There are indeed more players, they could as well scale up the reward range to reflect this as illustrated by SlixSC's example.

"

and most of it is the result of this elitist and circlejerky attitude of some of the community figures and people who give direct feedback to GGG. You might aswell say "we don't want new players to get into racing, lettuce circlejerk in peace."

And here is the big issue.

Season 2 had a quiet selective shedule because there were 4-5 Races a day.

There was no feedback like "GGG hates Europe" because there always were races.

But some elitist racers cry "you are killing racing, I'm burning out because I can't do every race" and bang. Season 3-5 got a horrible shedule.

Another elitist racer selling Demigods for direct/indirect RMT cries "Demigods have no value" and bang we have a stupid S/F/C setting where C are mainly normal races without any challenging modes, so regular racers got it far easier, since they perfected progression
On the other side it's totally random ancestral being an indicator for Fun races suddenly becomes a competive race.

Harder race modes( not always the same people winning stay unrewarded). Just because somebody needs a "O Demigod for x exalts"->"O exalts n foolsgold" swap.

I already suggested to add a subreward for Demigods this way far more players have got access to Demigods and high tier Demigods are for regular racers.

But this SFC setting must be kicked and there must a a way to introduce war more race while making them Selective for regular racers.

"

Hassefar60 wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

if a level 15 guy and I got the same points, then why the heck did I bother running to level 20? besides personal pride, that is.

The answer to that specific question is: Because that is the only way for you to get the practice needed to reach lvl 21 consistently and earn more points consistently.


Still, I do agree with you and SlixSC. They already scaled up the number of players whose deaths would be announced in any hardcore league. There are indeed more players, they could as well scale up the reward range to reflect this as illustrated by SlixSC's example.

that's the problem: guys like you can do at least 1 race a day, and even if you pick up 4 points per race, you move up in the season ladder and rack-up awards.

I can't. job. family. time-zone issues.
I can race occasionally, and I'm also very picky with the types of races I enter.

so for me to get somewhere, and pick up some cool alternate-alt loots, basically means winning every race.
I'm not even remotely good enough for that, and I can't compete with some of the top or even medium-skilled guys out there.

that's why I like Slix's idea of tighter level-award tiers (though I disagree with his numbers).
I also think there should be prizes beyond the 1000 (or 10k in Slix's system) point mark, to keep the top guys interested, and the others should be more evenly distributed.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Hassefar60 wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

if a level 15 guy and I got the same points, then why the heck did I bother running to level 20? besides personal pride, that is.

The answer to that specific question is: Because that is the only way for you to get the practice needed to reach lvl 21 consistently and earn more points consistently.


Still, I do agree with you and SlixSC. They already scaled up the number of players whose deaths would be announced in any hardcore league. There are indeed more players, they could as well scale up the reward range to reflect this as illustrated by SlixSC's example.

that's the problem: guys like you can do at least 1 race a day, and even if you pick up 4 points per race, you move up in the season ladder and rack-up awards.

I can't. job. family. time-zone issues.
I can race occasionally, and I'm also very picky with the types of races I enter.

so for me to get somewhere, and pick up some cool alternate-alt loots, basically means winning every race.
I'm not even remotely good enough for that, and I can't compete with some of the top or even medium-skilled guys out there.

that's why I like Slix's idea of tighter level-award tiers (though I disagree with his numbers).
I also think there should be prizes beyond the 1000 (or 10k in Slix's system) point mark, to keep the top guys interested, and the others should be more evenly distributed.

Like I said, the exact point values would be subject to change.

But one thing, I hope, most people will take away from this thread, is that feedback like yours is very valuable and shouldn't just be dismissed. There are alot of interesting debates to be had about this specific issue and the worst thing we could do is to simply ignore feedback like yours on an almost ad-hominem basis.

We all want racing to be more popular, so I think feedback from someone like you is very important because it makes it easier to identify the problems with the racing schedule, point system and so on.

The problem is less obvious for someone like me, who has enough time to do at least 2 races a day. That's why I said some people lack perspective (I'm sometimes guilty of this myself) and love to circlejerk, so I think it's good when people like you find the courage to give feedback on this forum. I appreciate it.