[28] 1.0.0 - Ungil´s dualwield block buffed?

Hi,

as we all know there have been some changes to Unique items in 1.0.0
Some, primarily to high-end uniques, are considered a nerf others a buff.

One in particular has caught my eye though.

From the 1.0.0 patch notes:

"

The following Unique items have been directly buffed. Using a Divine Orb on an existing version will roll new mods in the new ranges.
ical Damage has been increased.
[...]
Ungil's Gauche: Block While Dual Wielding has been increased.

The legacy Ungil´s looked like this:


It grants 12% additional Blockchance while dualwielding. And this stacks when using two Ungil´s. That means, as dualwielding grants 15% baseblock, that a build using 2x Ungil´s has a blockchance of 39%. That is already only 1% less block than a character using Perandus´ has. And Perandus´ is the shield with highest blockchance. This results in a character that has nearly the same amount of blocvk as a character that uses a shield.
BUT:
A character using 2x Ungil´s also gets 10% more attackspeed. And he has more damage, especially when using Dual Strike (which arguably has one of the best quality effects anyways - 80% increased critchance).

Result: Dualwielding is better on the offence AND the defence than 1h+shield. As a shield is the dedicated block-item, should this not be the other way around?

Now, concerning the buff:

If the blockchance while Dualwielding is only increased by a meager 1%, resulting in 13% additional blockchance, a character using 2x Ungil´s has more baseblock than a character using the best blockshield. I mean, players like Hexaste already have ~10k dps using dual Ungil´s. And now they have MORE baseblock than a shieldblock build too? Or they now can switch to a pure dps-dagger, like a rare Skean or Stiletto, in combination with 1x Ungil´s and still maintain roughly the same level of defence as up until now?

Am I the only one to whom this does not make any sense? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for your clarification.

UPDATE:

Obtained a new Ungil´s. It grants additional 20% blockchance while dualwielding now.




best regards

/edit:

Thanks dzordzo for pointing out my error about attackspeed when dualwielding. It is 10% MORE attackspeed:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Dual_wielding

Corrected it...

I was also surprised of this buff. Previously this item was very good for LLD. Now it's BiS for shadow crit builds. Just for the record DW gives 15% block and 10% ias.

still mediocre and i very much doubt that the buff was intended for lv28 pvp

"

exmse wrote:

still mediocre and i very much doubt that the buff was intended for lv28 pvp

Mediocre? Hexaste has just short of 10k dps with double Ungil's.

"

exmse wrote:

still mediocre and i very much doubt that the buff was intended for lv28 pvp

Mediocre in which regard? Damage-wise it surely is. There is much higher dps possible on rare daggers. But defensively it is definitely the best possible option (for melee dualwielding that is), as it even grants more base blockchance than the best blockshield. 55% baseblock, to be precise.


regards

I lost my shit when I saw this in the patch notes, also went more insane when I saw the buffed version in the unique thread. I figured they would go to 15% but 20% is just ludicrous. Also they buffed acro so just DW those you can have 55% block and 40% dodge, for a 27% chance of someone hitting you if they have RT! They also nerfed the block pen nodes so now you can only get, what 15-20% max for LLD?

Also for you guys saying these daggers are low damage, remember that elemental damage from non-weapons is double with dual strike (so the new buffed wrath is double damage), they have a more attack speed bonus, also DW they give 100% global crit on a high crit base (along with the 80% implicit). Also you can almost triple the lightning damage they do without factoring in flat lightning damage on jewelry.

Hex and I are going to work on making these work for merc too. As with dervish you have 69% block in 3 passives.

If this is really the route they want to go perandus needs to buffed, buff shield blocks nodes (devish is basically 2 1/2 GREAT shield notables) or buff block pen nodes while reducing the overall value if you got them all. Any of these 3 will help wonders.

I'm so annoyed that DW does not only have higher DPS but also has higher EHP now.

"

Moosifer wrote:

I lost my shit when I saw this in the patch notes, also went more insane when I saw the buffed version in the unique thread. I figured they would go to 15% but 20% is just ludicrous. Also they buffed acro so just DW those you can have 55% block and 40% dodge, for a 27% chance of someone hitting you if they have RT! They also nerfed the block pen nodes so now you can only get, what 15-20% max for LLD?

Yeah, the point about Acro is correct, though I think 55% baseblock is decent enough for defence in LLD.
Blockpen got only removed in the Mara/Templar-area though. Duelist still has the 15% node and Ranger 2x 20% Blockreduction.

"

Moosifer wrote:

Also for you guys saying these daggers are low damage, remember that elemental damage from non-weapons is double with dual strike (so the new buffed wrath is double damage), they have a more attack speed bonus, also DW they give 100% global crit on a high crit base (along with the 80% implicit). Also you can almost triple the lightning damage they do without factoring in flat lightning damage on jewelry.

Absolutely correct and I am not arguing this. I am just saying that with a rare Skean or elemental Stiletto you will have more dps and in combination with only one new Ungil´s you´ll have nearly the same baseblock as before.

"

Moosifer wrote:

If this is really the route they want to go perandus needs to buffed, buff shield blocks nodes (devish is basically 2 1/2 GREAT shield notables) or buff block pen nodes while reducing the overall value if you got them all. Any of these 3 will help wonders.

I'm so annoyed that DW does not only have higher DPS but also has higher EHP now.

I don´t think buffing Perandus alone would be enough, but we would need higher baseblock on every shield. And I am talking like 20% higher. I mean, I have no problem with a dedicated DW-block-item. But having a cheapass dagger that grants more baseblock than the best blockshield is just stupid. Remember: shields are and should be the optimal item to block attacks. It defies basic common sense that daggers are better blockitems than shields (because, you know, knights and men-at-arms where using shields and not daggers in their offhand). A shield is for blocking, a dagger is for parrying! And there should be the difference. Just a quick thought, why not make shieldblock entropy-based and dualwield-block (renamed to: parry) random?

About Dervish: yes, that cluster alone is good. AND you can get 75% dw-block in the duelist area (Bravado- and Blade Barrier-cluster), which is even more insane!

regards

For LLD I'd stick with dual ungils even for damage unless you have some sort of insane dagger. 90% crit is huge.

I agree with the stuff about shields. It makes no sense to me trying to picture someone with 2 kitchen knives being able to defend attacks better than someone holding a door in front of them.

If not entropy-based or random why not one based on incoming damage similar to how armor works. Not sure exactly how it works but because shields have more structure to them they withstand hard blows easier than some dude with knives.

10k dps is insane but duel ungils cannot compete with other top tier builds
You hit crazy amount of tool tip dps but the vast majority is just lightening damage.. depends what you're aiming for.

I just don't see duel ungils as a truly viable build


from my experience a dagger + parandus is best
dagger/ungill > duel ungill

just my opinion + experience. If anything i think the buff isn't a bad thing.. but doubtful that it was intended for lv28 pvp