If you are following a build...

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

Claiming that the game hasn't become objectively easier over time is absolutely laughable. People who honestly think that aren't just wrong, they're wrong in a way that disqualifies them from any conversation on game balance.

Players used to group up for XP farming runs in the Lunaris Temple / Dried Lake / Ossuary (depending on where the campaign ended) because Tier 1 and 2 maps were LETHAL to characters in campaign gear.

You used to be able to SELL T16 maps for a significant amount of currency because so few players could run them with more than 3-4 mods that there was a genuine shortage in the economy.

The overwhelming majority of players in hardcore trade paid for higher level carries through the merciless lab and A10 Kitava fights.

I could name dozens more specific examples like this proving that the game is easier now, but it's common sense if you just look at the changes over time to items and the passive tree:

Every single defensive system available to players has been buffed. Stun and ailment mitigation is much easier to get with fewer downsides. Mana reservation is far more available, so players are running more auras than in the past without needing specific expensive items.

It's not just that players are better now than we used to be, the game is easier because players have objectively better items with bigger numbers on them than existed in the past.

Oh man... We used to run dried lake with full groups just for exp! Good memories, good times. I agree, this game used to be extremely hard. I once quit a league because it was too hard. That was when I was just starting poe.

i remember when we started in open beta there was a TON of public groups being used and it was for things like farming merciless docks to prepare for being able to go to lunaris temple and beat merciless piety to get into maps.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

Build guides are like the floaties that kids wear when they're first learning how to swim. There's no harm in using them when you are completely new to the experience, but if you don't learn to stay afloat without them you'll literally never get good no matter how much time you spend.

And I know we're talking about a game, why is "getting good" even the goal here? Because that's genuinely the best aspect of this genre, and it's the thing that PoE1 does better then everything else: you take a skill or an item that "eVeRyOnE kNoWs" is bad and you use it to crush pinnacle content with a build literally nobody else is playing.

I would have moved on from PoE years ago if it wasn't for this "solving the puzzle" aspect of character creation, and I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who just can't overcome their fear of failure and experience it for themselves.

yeah im more of this mindset and the mindset the op has, i agree a lot with the original poster. thats my take.



i hear a lot of people say well it would take forever to get to X or to learn Y etc... ok but thats playing the game. you mean i can play this game forever and not run out of things to do?

awesome. that sounds amazing, give me that, sign me up to that version of the game. thats everything i want.



the version of the game i dont want is load a build guide, beat all the content in 1 week because i just went straight to all the best answers to all the games challenges that someone else had mathed out for me and then theres nothing to do and i quit the game til next league cause im bored and theres 'no content'.

im kind of there already anyway cause ive been playing since 2013 making my own builds and if i want to i can start a new league pick a skill spend 3 minutes planning a tree and then just do everything in the game. the way i make the game fun for me is by working within limitations like im gonna play this specific class and im going to use this skill, this weapon type, this defence setup and im not gonna use a mageblood, now lets see how this comes together, wheres the ceiling? what can it do what cant it do?



for me thats fun. i cant get my head around the idea of just wanting to go to the most optimal content and farm that for... what? whats the point? uf im already doing the 'best' thing what am i going to do with the items i hope to farm? i just dont get it. other people get it and thats cool, you guys do your thing but for me id much rather be playing the game the op is playing, id rather be playing a witch stuck in T8 maps trying to work out how to improve on my own.

i kind of wish i was back there with so much of the game unexplored for me to still enjoy. i dont want to get the best box of chocolates in the world and eat it in 10 seconds stuffing 5 of them down my throat at a time. for me the game is there to be enjoyed, i want to spend time and i want things to spend time on.

The days of daily master mission rota and dried lake merciless exp farm groups are long gone though lol

I'm very satisfied following a build guide and editing it slightly to fit my own needs every patch if anything changes. I can kill uber bosses in a matter of seconds on like 20-30 div budget every league, that's good enough for me.

I get oneshot by most of their attacks, if they live to do any attacks that is. Sometimes I do them deathless, sometimes I spend a few portals.

I don't like the very idea of uber bosses anyway so most leagues I will join my friend's uber kills or buy carries for 4-5 div out of sheer laziness.

Just giving them more damage and making them take 70% less is so uncreative and boring. And some of them have +X Projectiles map mod. Wow how "difficult".

Because yes, damage sponges=difficulty right? Let's just make every boss in the game have the 32-bit integer limit number as their HP then right? That would make it so much more difficult and "meaningful" right guys?


Tediousness=/=difficulty or engaging gameplay. This is why some people spend hundreds of divs on a build to trivialize bosses, because they don't want to fight it the "intended" way with zdps.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Tediousness=/=difficulty or engaging gameplay. This is why some people spend hundreds of divs on a build to trivialize bosses, because they don't want to fight it the "intended" way with zdps.

so why are they fighting those bosses?

they think if the fight takes time, if they actually have to spend time playing the game its 'tedious' so they dont actually want to play the game, they just want to kill the boss as quick as possible to avoid spending any time actually playing the content... well what are they doing it for?

to kill the boss to get what? items? they already have a build that can kill the hardest boss in seconds. what do they want the items to achieve?

they dont actually like playing the game, theyre doing all this to avoid having to actually play, so what is the point?


genuine question im not trying to be a dick, i just do not understand these kind of players at all. i dont know why they play path of exile, it doesnt make any sense to me.


theyre not in it for the game play. theyre not in it for the challenge. theyre not in it for the creativity of making builds and characters. they already have the gear that can beat everything. what are they doing? why? i dont understand.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

genuine question im not trying to be a dick, i just do not understand these kind of players at all. i dont know why they play path of exile, it doesnt make any sense to me.

Because standing there auto-attacking a boss for 20 minutes isn't very exciting gameplay for everyone. Sure its funny to see a streamer do it, but most people don't enjoy that kind of stuff.

And I'm someone who enjoys grinding in games for hours, but I couldn't imagine trying to do any boss on a build without tens of millions of dps. It would just be boring to me.

Everyone plays PoE and enjoys the game in their own way, most SC Trade players are just in it for the satisfying item drops and making currency to get more gear to make currency faster till they get bored or reroll.

That's why Ruthless also isn't for everyone.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Tediousness=/=difficulty or engaging gameplay. This is why some people spend hundreds of divs on a build to trivialize bosses, because they don't want to fight it the "intended" way with zdps.

This is why I think GGG adding Maven as a boss fight has been a refreshing change of pace for boss fights. I know people have gripes with it, but I like the simon sez phase as it encourages quick thinking. She also has deadly attacks which are generously telegraphed so you don't feel like you get unfairly 1shot even as an uber boss.

In fact, the new Originator bosses are pretty good as ubers too, because of the continuation of this design philosophy. They don't take way too long to kill and you don't feel like any deaths are unfair, because you can plainly see the attack coming and you didn't get out of the way in time.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Tediousness=/=difficulty or engaging gameplay. This is why some people spend hundreds of divs on a build to trivialize bosses, because they don't want to fight it the "intended" way with zdps.

If you actually followed your build guide properly instead of skimming on essentials, those Uber boss fights wouldn’t feel like damage sponges.

it genuinely isn't hard to have good Uber damage for quick fights while still having enough defense to not get one shot, without spending hundreds and hundreds of divines on a build.

But like you've said, players love to grind, so they keep investing more currency into their characters. Not because they need to trivialize the content, cause that's already happening on shoelace gear, but because they genuinely enjoy playing the game and progressing their build further.

But are you quietly telling us that you skip Ubers because your damage feels zdps and the fights feel tedious?

If fighting Ubers feels tedious to you, it might be worth to revisit the guide you're using again, just to make sure you're actually follow said guide properly, or potentially try a different build that offers a better experience.
More damage, more ehp, those basic things that make endgame feel more enjoyable, you know?

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

This is why I think GGG adding Maven as a boss fight has been a refreshing change of pace for boss fights. I know people have gripes with it, but I like the simon sez phase as it encourages quick thinking. She also has deadly attacks which are generously telegraphed so you don't feel like you get unfairly 1shot even as an uber boss.

Agree partially on the Maven fight. It's something new and interesting compared to other ubers but the rotating and moving laser beams on third memory phase just kill the fun for me.

I have no problem with the first two phases but steering your character through lasers and remembering the tiles with slowing debuffs on the ground just make it overly difficult.

It would be better maybe to replace the lasers with en extra tile or something if really needs be more difficult.