If you are following a build...

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

If gear necessary to tackle uber bosses is expensive, there is no reason for you to try and make your own from scratch without guides.

You can kill ubers on a 1d shoelace budget or even with some random thrown together ground loot trash. So the claim that gear is too expensive is not true.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

If gear necessary to tackle uber bosses is expensive, there is no reason for you to try and make your own from scratch without guides.

You can kill ubers on a 1d shoelace budget or even with some random thrown together ground loot trash. So the claim that gear is too expensive is not true.

I'm not interested in spending an hour whittling a boss to death with nonexistent DPS or getting 1shot by their basic attacks.

Just because you can fight ubers on a budget, doesn't mean it's not going to be a miserable as shit experience.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

I'm not interested in spending an hour whittling a boss to death with nonexistent DPS or getting 1shot by their basic attacks.

Good news, you don't need an hour, or even multiple minutes. And you certainly don't get one shot either.

The idea that you can’t make a strong build without hundreds of hundreds of divs is a pretty clear misconception, and it usually just points to a misunderstanding of how the game actually works and what’s realistically needed to progress and push all content.

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Just because you can fight ubers on a budget, doesn't mean it's not going to be a miserable as shit experience.

Many others can do it too, so you could do it too if you wanted!
It mostly comes down to knowing what you’re doing, rather than using item prices, builds, or anything else as an excuse that the content is out of reach for an individual.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

I'm not interested in spending an hour whittling a boss to death with nonexistent DPS or getting 1shot by their basic attacks.

Good news, you don't need an hour, or even multiple minutes. And you certainly don't get one shot either.

The idea that you can’t make a strong build without hundreds of hundreds of divs is a pretty clear misconception, and it usually just points to a misunderstanding of how the game actually works and what’s realistically needed to progress and push all content.

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Just because you can fight ubers on a budget, doesn't mean it's not going to be a miserable as shit experience.

Many others can do it too, so you could do it too if you wanted!
It mostly comes down to knowing what you’re doing, rather than using item prices, builds, or anything else as an excuse that the content is out of reach for an individual.

Do you have proof there are builds you can make on a 1div budget that doesn't get 1shot by ubers nor takes ages to kill? I would be extremely surprised by this, because build guide creators who are infinitely more knowledgeable than me about game mechanics would be all over these if anything you say is true.

Honestly it sounds like contrarianism to me, arguing for the sake of it in order to flex some elitist git gudder attitude.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

Do you have proof there are builds you can make on a 1div budget that doesn't get 1shot by ubers nor takes ages to kill?

Use Google, search PoE 1d challenge or PoE 1d budget and you'll find the content you're looking for, content from randoms across different league. You’re welcome.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

Do you have proof there are builds you can make on a 1div budget that doesn't get 1shot by ubers nor takes ages to kill?

Use Google, search PoE 1d challenge or PoE 1d budget and you'll find the content you're looking for, content from randoms across different league. You’re welcome.

Googled. Got a bunch of build guides that aren't related to 1div builds at all. Only one single relevant result popped up and it's a heavily downvoted reddit thread of a guy asking for a build that can do ubers on a 1div budget. Several comments suggest such a playstyle is damn near unachievable now due to increasing difficulty in the game.

Only one comment suggested a youtuber named paintmasterpoe. They have a couple 1d builds in PoE 1, but it seems their focus is more on PoE 2. Looking through them, none that I found do any uber bosses. At best they do T17. When they do maps in T16 or T17, time spent in them can range anywhere from 8 minutes to 12+.

So like I said, you can't fight ubers on a budget without having a miserable experience, if you can even fight them at all.

And because you can't make a good build on a budget, nobody in their right mind is going to waste precious currency juryrigging one from scratch, failing, and being forced to sell their gear back at a net loss. This is especially true when there are tried and tested build guides that assure good performance.

Either your belief that 1d budget uber builds are achievable is outdated and hardly viable in current PoE balance state, or you're being contrarian to flex how cool you are.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

So like I said, you can't fight ubers on a budget without having a miserable experience, if you can even fight them at all.

You can, but you just need to know of what you're doing, obviously.

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And because you can't make a good build on a budget, nobody in their right mind is going to waste precious currency juryrigging one from scratch, failing, and being forced to sell their gear back at a net loss. This is especially true when there are tried and tested build guides that assure good performance.

You can absolutely make strong builds on a shoelace budget. Otherwise, where do you think all those League starter and budget builds come from?

Do you think they just appear out of thin air? Or are they the result of players experimenting, and refining their own setups before turning that experience into guides for you? And if those guides are built on other guides, then where did the original guide of the guide come from? also from thin air and out of nothingness?

How do you think people manage to progress so quickly on a shoestring budget in both trade league and SSF if not by understanding how to build efficiently from the ground up rather than relying on expensive or pre-packaged setups? Cause in the end of the day nobody spawns with a power packed character on the beach.

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Either your belief that 1d budget builds are achievable is outdated and hardly viable in current PoE balance state

The game has gotten easier and easier over the years. Each new patch and wave of power creep has only made it easier to exceed the required content ceiling, so yes, that "belief" is pretty much still up to date with the current state of the game.

Are you new to the game or something?

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

You can, but you just need to know of what you're doing, obviously.

"1d budget builds are uber viable because git gud scrub"

Yeah dawg, very helpful advice there and totally proves their viability.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

You can absolutely make strong builds on a shoelace budget. Otherwise, where do you think all those League starter and budget builds come from?

Do you think they just appear out of thin air? Or are they the result of players experimenting, and refining their own setups before turning that experience into guides for you? And if those guides are built on other guides, then where did the original guide of the guide come from? also from thin air and out of nothingness?

How do you think people manage to progress so quickly on a shoestring budget in both trade league and SSF if not by understanding how to build efficiently from the ground up rather than relying on expensive or pre-packaged setups? Cause in the end of the day nobody spawns with a power packed character on the beach.

Starter builds aren't 1d budget builds you claimed were uber viable as a refutation to my claim that nobody is going to take risks making builds from scratch due to sheer cost.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

The game has gotten easier and easier over the years. Each new patch and wave of power creep has only made it easier to exceed the required content ceiling, so yes, that "belief" is pretty much still up to date with the current state of the game.

Are you new to the game or something?

Ah, so you are detached from the current reality of the game.

You think the game has gotten easier and easier over the years. I still dread having to fight uber bosses for challenge completion on a mid budget summoner build based off of a guide from a reputable guide creator. You trivialize content and think that because you can, that means the game is easy and everyone else agrees with that statement. The truth of the matter is, a lot of the powercreep that is being introduced to the game is often accessed exclusively by players with immense wealth. Hell, just look at Screams of the Desiccated. Even a good single shrine buff puts it above Mageblood in value, with a 2-buff belt being in the mirror range. Is it powercreep? Absolutely, but you'll never see most people use it, because it's well beyond their reach.

One doesn't need to look very far to know powercreep is on the high end of build budgets. Whenever builds are powerful enough to get nerfed, GGG always goes after the aspects that are cheap and accessible. It's kind of odd that Mageblood not only gets left untouched, but can be gambled to have 5 flask slots to get even stronger, no? Meanwhile, cold skeleton archers has to get nerfed alongside cluster jewel aura mods being removed.

The less fortunate have to make due, but those with hundreds of divs or even mirrors get to cruise on by and then complain that the game has become too easy.

Your experience and opinion on the current state of the game is just that: Your opinion. You've grown skilled enough at the game that it feels easy for you. Don't make that other peoples' problem.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

Yeah dawg, very helpful advice there and totally proves their viability.

Players slapping all content on shoelace gear with each and every league release is your proof. You can’t make this up and then claim there’s zero evidence, when every league start is evidence enough. Especially with shoelace-tier SSF players are having no issues whatsoever progressing on gear that would barely be worth 3D in trade league during a fresh start.

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Starter builds aren't 1d budget builds you claimed were uber viable as a refutation to my claim

There are 1d options and other shoelace options within a totally laughable amount. Like even 5-10d is a joke. Even if you don’t want to push the budget as low as possible and prefer to be more flexible with your ability choices, you can’t seriously argue that even a moderate investment of around 10, maybe at most 20 divines is too much, especially for the harder content, when you already have access to T16 farming on less than 1D ground loot, shoelace gear. lol

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nobody is going to take risks making builds from scratch due to sheer cost.

And that's why new builds show up left and right cause "nobody" takes the risk? yea right.

I’m sure those builds that currently exist and existed in the past are a result of Krillson having a good day and whispering secret builds and techniques to players. lol

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Ah, so you are detached from the current reality of the game.
You think the game has gotten easier and easier over the years.

Because the game has really become easier over the years. A lot has changed, many systems have been watered down, and we now have access to far more player power, which makes mistakes more forgiving than ever before.

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I still dread having to fight uber bosses for challenge completion on a mid budget summoner build based off of a guide from a reputable guide creator.

That’s unfortunate? If you read your own phrase carefully, you might notice the issue.

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You trivialize content and think that because you can, that means the game is easy and everyone else agrees with that statement.

Most of the player base is blasting through the content faster than ever, so I’m not sure about you, but if a large number of players are having zero issues, not just me, it seems pretty clear that the game has gotten easier, not harder.

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The truth of the matter is, a lot of the powercreep that is being introduced the game is often accessed exclusively by players with immense wealth. Hell, just look at Screams of the Desiccated. Even a good single shrine buff puts it above Mageblood in value, with a 2-buff belt being in the mirror range. Is it powercreep? Absolutely, but you'll never see most people use it, because it's well beyond their reach.

Yes, this is the kind of aspirational power creep that keeps players engaged, because having chase items is a good thing. But aside from this single belt, they’ve introduced a lot of power creep at the ground level, basic things that aren’t locked behind wealth, but simply exist due to normal changes affecting everyone regardless of investment.

Over the past years we’ve received a lot of player buffs. A lot of skill gems and archetypes got buffed, ascendancy classes got heavily buffed, and quality was reworked which was a huge buff for anyone playing phys builds. Defenses also got a good gain out of it, new base items were also introduced and buffed defenses a lot, life rolls got buffed. Transfigured gems were introduced and added a lot of baseline player power already accessible with the very first lab and 0 investment cost. With the last league a new layer of player power was added with foulborn uniques. On top of that, the endgame ceiling was heavily dialed down, atlas and endgame changes made map sustain and overall progression a whole lot easier, and async trade along with the currency exchange system made it easier than ever to generate currency without having to deal with the old trade friction, and many more changes I can’t really be bothered to list, because we’re just going to pretend like the buffs never happened anyway.

So I don’t really know what to tell you, but the game has gotten a lot easier over the past years. If you’re still unconvinced, it’s likely not the game being too hard or at fault after so many net positive changes, but your own understanding, build choices, or execution that’s holding you back.

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Your experience and opinion on the current state of the game is just that: Your opinion. You've grown skilled enough at the game that it feels easy for you. Don't make that other peoples' problem.

Well, this would also apply to your own perspective as well, with the added implication that you can’t attribute your struggles to the game being too difficult or unfair, especially when the current state of the game suggests quite the opposite. Don't make your struggles other people struggles.

Claiming that the game hasn't become objectively easier over time is absolutely laughable. People who honestly think that aren't just wrong, they're wrong in a way that disqualifies them from any conversation on game balance.

Players used to group up for XP farming runs in the Lunaris Temple / Dried Lake / Ossuary (depending on where the campaign ended) because Tier 1 and 2 maps were LETHAL to characters in campaign gear.

You used to be able to SELL T16 maps for a significant amount of currency because so few players could run them with more than 3-4 mods that there was a genuine shortage in the economy.

The overwhelming majority of players in hardcore trade paid for higher level carries through the merciless lab and A10 Kitava fights.

I could name dozens more specific examples like this proving that the game is easier now, but it's common sense if you just look at the changes over time to items and the passive tree:

Every single defensive system available to players has been buffed. Stun and ailment mitigation is much easier to get with fewer downsides. Mana reservation (edit: mana reservation efficiency) is far more available, so players are running more auras than in the past without needing specific expensive items.

It's not just that players are better now than we used to be, the game is easier because players have objectively better items with bigger numbers on them than existed in the past.