Why T18 Maps Are Necessary for the Future of Endgame PoE

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

Nothing is truly optional when newly added content carries exclusive drops that are stronger/more interesting than older items.

Content is not optional if you're playing ssf and don't have any other method to get access to exclusive drops. But if you choose ssf you're already aware to be in for a deep ride anyways.

But in trade league there shouldn't be any fomo at all as you can at any giving time just buy your desired items without ever running the content those items are originally drop restricted from.

Lets not even get into the "ethical" connundrum of this, where you go to trade and essentially equip items from content you didn't beat.

These items are few to go around and arbitrarily priced. Cause a handful of builds is capable of running the content essentially creating pseudo-monopolies.

Aspirational/optional content should, justifiably so, yield more drops. But they should never be exclusive drops.

The uber boss should drop a stack of divines for the killer. Not newly introduced items that are basically new content that devs been creating and only select few people can actually drop it and everyone else must go to trade and pay whatever is asked.

This does not make me feel like new content is being added equally for everyone. It makes me feel like top end gets the new playground and the new toys while the rest get to fight on trade site for whatever the top end decides not to keep.

Nothing you say will ever change my mind on this.

50% support gems nerf fixes issue related to players power. It happend before so it is deffinetely possible in future ^^

Because the endless power creep shows no signs of ever being endless (other than they take down 1 altogether), personally I think they should keep the same Atlas as current, cap it at T16 with most current options for playing it, and move T17 and up (however many that may be eventually) to a new "Atlas," or whatever they want to call it, that opens when you complete the 1st Atlas and it would be for advanced players with chase items that are only available to those on that Atlas and couldn't be bought on markets other than a section exclusive to those on that Atlas. Prevent the chase items from being usable anywhere but the advanced Atlas and you avoid RMT abuse.

Alienating to less capable players (including myself)? Yes, probably, but no different from now really and PoE 1 retains title of pinnacle ARPG in gaming.

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

Lets not even get into the "ethical" connundrum of this, where you go to trade and essentially equip items from content you didn't beat. These items will are few to go around and arbitrarily priced. Cause a handful of builds is capable of running the content essentially creating pseudo-monopolies.

You could beat the content at any giving time if you wanted to, so nothing stops you from doing so.

But since some drop rates are low and pretty much balanced around trade, you’d be stupid not to just buy the item you want and spend your time grinding the stuff you actually like. The game pretty much allows you to pick the content you want to play and engage with lol

Personally I have a passionate hate towards Heist because for me it's the most boring content in the entire game, obviously I will be the first one to buy heist exclusive items out of trade.
Can I clear heist? Yes, do I want to run and engage with the content? Nope

Same can be said for uber fights, I can beat those just fine but I don't hate myself enough to spend hours to kill the same boss over and over again just to get my hand on a desired low drop chance item. Instead I farm one or two hours content of my choice and simply buy my desired item, which is nice thanks to all content being optional and not mandatory.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

You could beat the content at any giving time if you wanted to, so nothing stops you from doing so..

No I am pretty sure the current difficulty of that content versus lack of capability of builds I make with my current knowledge to clear it quite firmly prevents me from doing the content :)

I could copy someone elses build that is capable but that wouldnt really be me playing the game.

There is a chance my builds could do the content if I put 400 divine or somenthing into them but I feel I will be too burned out at that point to enjoy whatever all that work has unlocked.

Anyway, its always the same - people claim they want challenge, but when I ask if they would take the challenge for challenge sake with no exclusive rewards they demand the exclusive rewards. So it becomes obvious that players don't really seek challange but, actually, ways to feel special. And when GGG caters to that the remainder of players who cannot keep up due to lesser skill, knowledge or time constraints or whatever else will always feel like second class citizens competing for scraps because thats is literally what it is.

The cool uber-players can have challenge any time they want, they just need to remove some support gems or do the uber uber with level 50 character. But they are never happy with that. They just want a monopoly on devs attention and they don't care what the flipside is.

And I wouldn't be surprised is the flipside is, actually, less retention overall.

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

Anyway, its always the same - people claim they want challenge, but when I ask if they would take the challenge for challenge sake with no exclusive rewards they demand the exclusive rewards. So it becomes obvious that players don't really seek challange but, actually, ways to feel special. And when GGG caters to that the remainder of players who cannot keep up due to lesser skill, knowledge or time constraints or whatever else will always feel like second class citizens competing for scraps because thats is literally what it is.

+1

This is literally what we're dealing with right now in T17 maps and associated farming strategies. You either run those or be content with garbage loot. Essence, Delirium, Ritual, Bestiary, Betrayal, and a whole ton of others simply can't compete with the likes of T17 Blight, Ambush, or Incursion. Oh and let's not forget how much narrower the list of viable builds become, forcing players to run meta to farm properly.

And the worst part of all this is that these same people lack any foresight on the long-term consequences this will bring. Someone commented in support of the OP saying this suggestion can then make way to later add T19 maps.

Like, do these people not hear themselves? Where would this end? T32 maps? T100?

You know an easier solution to this problem? Nerfing the everliving daylights out of the bored 0.1%, or making T17 and uber bosses a flex difficulty that offers literally nothing new or better and exists purely to be challenging, and put everything currently in T17 in T16 and aspirational bosses. After that, GGG draws a line in the sand for player power and nerfs anything that goes beyond that.

I prefer to think that the t19 response was sarcasm and not a honestly held position.

Unfortunately GGG has shown time and time again that they are incapable of surgical nerfing the top end without demolishing everything else in the process so maybe its best they do nothing instead.

There isnt even a problem beyond exclusive drops. Take those away and replace with generic drops. Or put them into pre-uber content at lesser rarity. Anything works, as long as they are not exclusive.

If devs are honestly concerned with retention maybe it would make more sense to make game enjoyable for wider subset of players expanding the game around t16 and pinnacle content instead of twisting the game to the liking of top few by constantly bolting on more and more shit to the very top.

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

I prefer to think that the t19 response was sarcasm and not a honestly held position.

I'd like to assume the same, but we already got T17, because bored elites demanded it and now they're back wanting T18.

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

Unfortunately GGG has shown time and time again that they are incapable to surgical nerfing the top end without demolishing everything else in the process so maybe its best they do nothing instead.

The solution they could do is actually build a power ceiling. A lot of power is derived from gearing, so the solution would be to shave off the top end.

T1 and T2 item mods? Delete them.
Chase uniques? Delete them.

No. If you would shave item power or do any carpet nerf fest then all it would achieve is make current t16 feel like t17 and current t17 feel like t18.

Its not what you want, unless you want the same thing as the bored elites and not realise this?

The answer to bored elites is to let them be bored because that is normal for anyone who vastly excells others in anything.