Restart league, every league once please - league cycles

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derbe#6071 wrote:

From a monetization standpoint, as you can see here: https://steamcharts.com/app/238960, we're already at around 50% player retention from the start after 3-4 weeks.

I don't wanna repeat myself, but you people should at least make a minimum effort when you post something.

Use this website, because it's not helping anyone when you post some data which wasn't even updated in last week, making it like it's recent.
https://steamdb.info/app/238960/charts/

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derbe#6071 wrote:

From a monetization standpoint, as you can see here: https://steamcharts.com/app/238960, we're already at around 50% player retention from the start after 3-4 weeks. Imagine if 50% of those remaining 50% would start over—that's approximately 45k people who would restart. It would cost practically nothing to implement, and potentially 45k people would buy something. Sounds like a win-win to me. If you can't see it, okay, but I can. :)

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Sadaukar#2191 wrote:

I think the game would die pretty quickly if that was to be implemen....

I never said, every month...


PS: POE2 very different then POE1 (for me fully something else, not everyone like POE2)

Don't u realize that u're contradicting urself here?

U're saying that we're already at that point after ~3 weeks, which means from ur standpoint there should be a new league starting already.
But then u claim to not have said it should restart every month?

Anyway, it wouldn't be a good idea imo. (for reasons I already stated)

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Dxt44#4050 wrote:

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derbe#6071 wrote:

From a monetization standpoint, as you can see here: https://steamcharts.com/app/238960, we're already at around 50% player retention from the start after 3-4 weeks.

I don't wanna repeat myself, but you people should at least make a minimum effort when you post something.

Use this website, because it's not helping anyone when you post some data which wasn't even updated in last week, making it like it's recent.
https://steamdb.info/app/238960/charts/

Yeah, this looks even worse — only 66k players left out of 183k. That means 64% of the players are already gone. If that doesn’t tell you everything, I don’t know what will.

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Sadaukar#2191 wrote:

Don't u realize that u're contradicting urself here?

U're saying that we're already at that point after ~3 weeks, which means from ur standpoint there should be a new league starting already.
But then u claim to not have said it should restart every month?

Anyway, it wouldn't be a good idea imo. (for reasons I already stated)

No, I don’t think so. I said for me it’s already over. Yes, I said every two months would be fine, or around 50% of the player base gone — but I didn’t expect it to drop this fast. So yeah, two months sounds about right for me.


I think this would he huge if we could get restart!

GGG, it might be worth testing this at least once. Simply restarting with identical settings is usually sufficient for most users to begin with a clean environment.

I think it would be really cool if there was some kind of fresh league restart around 4 weeks into the current PoE1 league, when the league population usually starts dropping hard.

A lot of players are basically done by that point:

finished their builds
completed most goals
economy slows down
trade becomes less active
many people quit until the next league

A second fresh start could give players a reason to come back and keep the game active longer without needing a full new expansion.

Even something simple like:

a short fresh economy reset
a mini-event league
boosted/private-style modifiers
or an optional “season 2” restart

would probably bring a lot of players back.

The early league experience is the most fun part of PoE for many people, and it feels a bit wasted that it only really happens once every few months.

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derbe#6071 wrote:

The interesting part is that implementing more frequent league resets would require minimal resources from the PoE1 team.

we do not know for certain what goes behind the scenes but i m willing to bet its not as easy as you think. but i guess if they made void only league resets it probably could be easier to implement

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derbe#6071 wrote:

I genuinely believe that many players would return for a fresh economy alone, even without significant content changes. A clean slate and renewed competition can be incredibly appealing.

What are your thoughts on this approach?

that is your opinion. i am an oldschool player who is aging. i dont want to keep releveling and reearning my gear. i want to use my OP gear on standard but if i want to get the new stuff i m forced to go into reset leagues. i HATE doing this but i have no choice. fomo is a thing and it is strong.

but i guess there is SOME truth to your words. i too benefit from the economy reset.

but if there was layers upon layers of new seasonal reset, what happens is it hurts ALL the seasonal resets. lets not talk about burnout. think about the economy.

imagine if the top heisters all remained on a single league and refused to budge. heist currency would be "cheaper" on that league but on other leagues, due to fewer people running heist, that currency would be significantly more expensive.

on the flipside if one league has significantly lesser players, the economy would simply collapse. a good voices should reasonably fetch a high price. but if there are fewer players around, they would resort to lowering their price as less player are demanding the item.

its hard to imagine the real impact, but i can tell you with certainty ggg does not like splitting up their playerbase too much.

it would also introduce fomo if on one particular league a specific item you wanted dropped and its only available on that one specific league. if a player wants it that badly they would feel bad that they would have to refarm everything to attempt getting the item on that league if they didnt have a character on that league already.

if you're instead proposing a single league where resets are forced, then that would be something not even worth entertaining. i imagine i could be farming 100-200 divines for an awesome piece of gear, but ooops. reset time. all gone. fuuuuuck. my time is limited, i dont have the time to go hard. also in order for me to get 100-200 divines it takes me 1-2weeks to get to where i feel comfortable with my current gear. for sure there are many players who go hard. there are plenty of people hitting 100 in the first week of the game.

tho there are people who enjoy the reset. you have to understand. its not always because of the economic reset. some people like the new league. some people like to earn 40/40. me myself i m only here to get awesome loot that would make myself stronger on std. i particularly hate playing temp leagues and resent the fact its the only way i can ensure i own whatever i m trying to get.

that said, from my side its a hard no on both implementations.

i would be so demotivated from playing either leagues knowing my time is limited as is that i just dont see a point playing at all since i dont have the time to make meaningful item acquisitions. its not even retaining my interest in the game but in fact pushing me away.

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Sadaukar#2191 wrote:

I think the game would die pretty quickly if that was to be implemented.

PoE burnout is real and most people don't enjoy playing PoE all the time. League start is an event once every 3-4 months. People take time off work and plan around that.

Having that happening each month, or more frequent even, would not be the same and alot of people would get sick of it pretty fast I think.

It kinda is already happening with the 2 month cycle of PoE and PoE2. At least for me, it's too much PoE.

U can say, well if those people are burnt out they should just skip those leagues and that's true. It still diminishes the importance of league starts tho, because it happens much more often.

Maybe it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I certainly would enjoy PoE less and maybe quit altogether. Also it would probably keep people from starting the league late, because at that point they know that most of the others will start the new league in a few days/weeks anyway.

Exactly this +1

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here, so let me clarify what I'm actually proposing:

Nobody loses anything. Nothing gets wiped. No one is forced to restart.

The idea is additional, optional league starts running in parallel – not replacing the current 3-4 month cycle, and absolutely not resetting your existing characters or gear.Your 100-200 divine grind is safe. Your Standard stash is safe. Your current league character keeps existing exactly as it does today. Let me address the specific concerns:

"It would split the playerbase / kill the economy" The vast majority of players are already gone 6-8 weeks into a league. Look at any Steam chart – the league is effectively over long before GGG ends it. We're not splitting an active playerbase; we're offering something to the people who have already left. Those players aren't trading on the current league anyway.

"It would cause burnout"
Only if you opt in. If you're happy with the 3-4 month cycle, you literally do nothing different. The new starts exist for the people who want a fresh economy more often. Calling it burnout-inducing only makes sense if participation were mandatory – it isn't.

"League starts would lose their importance" The big content-drop league starts (new mechanic, balance patch, etc.) would still be the big events people take time off for. The interim resets would just be economy resets – a different product for a different audience. One doesn't cannibalize the other; they serve different player needs.

"FOMO from league-exclusive items" Not proposing exclusive drops. Same loot pool, same mechanics – just a fresh economy. The only thing that resets is the trade market.

"It costs GGG too much" That's exactly why I suggested it. Spinning up another instance of the same league with the same content is dramatically cheaper than building a new league mechanic. It's a low-effort way to keep PoE1 alive while the team focuses on PoE2.

So the honest question back: what do you actually lose if a parallel fresh-economy league exists that you simply don't play?

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derbe#6071 wrote:

So the honest question back: what do you actually lose if a parallel fresh-economy league exists that you simply don't play?

Potentially a lot, if you're playing in trade. Literally nothing if you're playing in SSF.

Players don't evenly contribute to the economy. Generally speaking, the better an item is, the smaller the percentage of players producing it will be; anyone capable of running maps can put currency and stacked decks into circulation, but ultra rate div cards mostly come from juicers (5% of players). Uber boss uniques are an even smaller number, 2% at the most. Top end rares, well under 1%.

It's also these same highly dedicated players who are most likely to move to the new league when it opens up, leaving the old one a ghost town at the top end of item trades because suddenly 99 of the 100 players capable of farming uber shaper for a Nimis are no longer doing so. You end up with a situation where players who aren't done with the current league feel obligated to move to the new league, simply because that's where the economy is now. This is absolutely a fast track to player burnout.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

Potentially a lot, if you're playing in trade.

as someone who farms for items to bring back to standard, i would be really pissed if all my hardwork farming up my build and farming currency is "wasted" when an item i want thats real good is put up for trade on a different league instance.

i wont experience burn out as i would have simply rage quit.