Exp loss should just be a toggle in settings/character creation

I agree the situation has improved otherwise. Maybe inspired by LE there is now more and more loss of loot when you die. Therefore reducing the need to have an xp penalty. Still, I wish the xp penalty was all throughout the game, instead of only the last lvl's. Early game losing 10% of a lvl is nothing and it habituates players to building for survivability.

Do you realize that this change would require a separate economy? Maybe it could be an option for private leagues.

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RealRoodvlees#0379 wrote:

I agree the situation has improved otherwise. Maybe inspired by LE there is now more and more loss of loot when you die. Therefore reducing the need to have an xp penalty. Still, I wish the xp penalty was all throughout the game, instead of only the last lvl's. Early game losing 10% of a lvl is nothing and it habituates players to building for survivability.

Do you realize that this change would require a separate economy? Maybe it could be an option for private leagues.

It really wouldn't require a separate economy though. All they'd have to do is delete exp loss and that's it. Game wouldn't change one bit for anyone. Or leave a toggle in there for people who still enjoy it. There is no downside to this and only an upside.


Exp loss is just a leftover from the days when the game still had Cruel and Merciless anyway, before we had 10 acts. When you had to do act 1-4 3 times to get to maps. I think the game has evolved past that point now. If exp loss is such an important core element, why isn't it in the whole campaign? Instead its only introduced after acts 5 and 10. Just remove it already, nobody likes losing their progress. Games are perfectly fine without such a pointlessly harsh death penalty. Losing portals is already enough in SC. I don't need the game deleting my hours of mapping for literally no reason at all.

No. Hardcore could have technically existed in the normal league as a simple “lose your character on death” toggle, but it became its own league and economy the moment that rule conflicted with the standard experience. A no death penalty option is the same, two opposing rules cannot exist in the same league or economy for obvious reasons, including competitive advantages and disadvantages.

GGG is not going to fracture the community with yet another “easy” mode. If we start introducing modes like that, what comes next? Demanding separate balance changes for each? That does not align with GGG’s development philosophy or integrity, especially given their focus on two live titles and tight development resources. Their design always balances content around the core mode, which includes experience penalties and other mechanics built into that framework.

Nobody is asking for a separate league though, it won't require that. Just simply deleting exp loss makes the game better and more fun, this is a fact.

Its not some core feature, its not important. You can't compare it to a playstyle like SSF or HC. And the slippery slope arguments to counter any QOL suggestions are getting old real fast.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Nobody is asking for a separate league though, it won't require that. Just simply deleting exp loss makes the game better and more fun, this is a fact.

Its not some core feature, its not important. You can't compare it to a playstyle like SSF or HC. And the slippery slope arguments to counter any QOL suggestions are getting old real fast.

Almost every single part of this comment is demonstrably false or uses words incorrectly.

First of all, a FACT is something objective and verifiably true or false. Something cannot factually be "more fun."

Secondly, experience gain and loss is absolutely a core feature in this game; I'd say it's far more of a core feature than trade is, and trade has its own leagues so modifications to the way experience works would absolutely qualify for that same treatment.

Thirdly, of course we can compare it to playstyles like SSF or HC. You've been doing it throughout this entire thread.

Fourthly, and I'd say most importantly, saying that we don't want the game to be made easier is not a slippery slope fallacy. It's us saying "we don't want the game to be made easier." That's just not at all what a slippery slope fallacy is.

Finally, asking for the game to become easier is NOT the same as Quality of Life.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I'm so confused by these comparisons to random real-life sports like golf.

How are you confused?

Golf doesn't matter. It's a game. People play it to have fun, and a large part of that fun comes from the fact that it's pretty difficult to hit a ball into a gopher hole from hundreds of yards away with an inbred hockey stick. If you undermine that core element of the game, even if a small number of players (who, let's be honest, don't even like golf all that much because if they did they'd bother getting good enough at it to actually sink a putt without a handicap) were happy that the game is easier for them to play, you are ruining the game for its core audience of enthusiasts.

That's right, I just did a No True Scotsman about GOLF. Do I win the internet now?

Anyway, I refuse to believe you're arguing in good faith if you honestly think there isn't a parallel here to videogames dumbing down core elements to cater to people who refuse to get good.

he refuses to see the parallel because he isnt arguing with logic. He is using his own emotions about the death penalty and therefore there is no argument that is better than his of why it should be removed.

He is doing science with the hypothesis with no experiment.

Its honestly a waste of time to argue with him outside the fact that hopefully ggg sees that people disagree strongly. I don't suspect theyre interested in this opinion anyways though.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

True, let’s make the leaderboards actually matter. From now on, we should only have three modes, SSF SC, SSF HC, and SSF HC Ruthless, ensuring everyone plays on a level field with no shady advantages.

thank you for showing how much bad faith you are putting in this discussion.

i no longer need to respond to you in this topic as you clearly are just trolling around.

Ladder this integrity that. Ladders ladders ladders.


I'm not trying to play an e-sport, I'm trying to have fun in a videogame. And SC Trade isn't competitive unless you're delving at depth 65000 or something. I don't want to compete with anyone, for anything. I am trying to have fun.


The competitive ladder is already there for people who truly care about it: in HC SSF. They always do all the boss kill and gauntlet races that have big rewards in that mode. I even got my free box at lvl50 in the boss kill event, that's also just a strategy that works for getting players to interact with an event. And those modes can stay the same, all I ask for is a change in Softcore.

Anyway, point is that any argument for keeping a competitive ladder for SC Trade is just a ship that sailed years ago now. The people that really wanna show off their skills play HC SSF, and casuals like me play Softcore Trade where you can buy any item you desire. All that I ask is for the game to not be so overly punishing towards death.

No the exp penalty is absolutely not needed, for any reason. All I want is so just do random maps and relax without worrying about losing my exp. A game has no right to steal my progress away and make me go 20 steps backwards. A death at lvl98-99 is hours upon hours of mapping when I get less than 1% per map in my alch&go 30% packsize map with like 4 strongboxes and 1 influence. I don't do crazy strats in every map, so exp is very slow to gain. This is why people turn to 5-ways.


What I'm requesting is perfectly reasonable, and I trust eventually exp loss is gonna go or there will be some way to turn it off with a slight downside. I'll take "gain less exp/less quant" until I hit 100, then I can flip the switch and have no downside again. Whatever solution they come up with, as long as the risk of feeling horrible after dying and losing 10% exp is deleted I would be happy.

Like, even if its a scarab that says "no exp loss in maps" and its rare, I will buy up 200 of those. I will use it on every map. The omen is not enough, if it prevented all exp loss I would use it but 75% might aswell be 0. That and its overpriced on Faustus.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Ladder this integrity that. Ladders ladders ladders.


I'm not trying to play an e-sport, I'm trying to have fun in a videogame. And SC Trade isn't competitive unless you're delving at depth 65000 or something. I don't want to compete with anyone, for anything. I am trying to have fun.

to be honest i m convinced that the people that dont want the penalty to go away just dont like others having fun at this point.

ladders doesnt mean anything if its not SSF HC imo.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Ladder this integrity that. Ladders ladders ladders.


I'm not trying to play an e-sport, I'm trying to have fun in a videogame. And SC Trade isn't competitive unless you're delving at depth 65000 or something. I don't want to compete with anyone, for anything. I am trying to have fun.

to be honest i m convinced that the people that dont want the penalty to go away just dont like others having fun at this point.

ladders doesnt mean anything if its not SSF HC imo.

Sane people = Give the option for a Casual league.
Bullies/Sadists = You cannot play how you want to because its not what we want.

There's no argument, just a clear divide where one group is constantly having to defend themselves from a more oppressive viewpoint that feels justified in putting others down.

Its just an example of toxicity that's cultivated instead of addressed in this community.