Exp loss should just be a toggle in settings/character creation

Whenever they remove the sand trap from a golf course I'll agree with you that we need to remove the xp penalty.

They essentially serve the same purpose.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

Whenever they remove the sand trap from a golf course I'll agree with you that we need to remove the xp penalty.

They essentially serve the same purpose.

Let's make the hole bigger while we're at it. It's unfair that they make it so small. :-(

Altho I reckon that's why they invented minigolf?

I'm so confused by these comparisons to random real-life sports like golf.

I'm talking about a videogame mechanic, its really as simple as "remove exp loss=game becomes more fun". There's nothing else to it.


Again, dying already feels bad. I don't need a game making me feel 2x worse by stealing away my hard-earned exp. There is no reason to do that, a death penalty is completely unnecessary and optional. Like I actually don't know a single other game that steals away your progress and gives you 0 chances to get it back, no checkpoints no savefiles. That would be ridiculous. And in games where you lose some kind of number of things, usually you can reclaim them if you just get back to where you died. Not in PoE though, that exp is just gone. That is inherently unfair.

"Hard-earned EXP" wouldn't be "hard-earned" if there were no way lose it.

Never died to lava in Minecraft? Should Minecraft patch out lava being able to destroy items?

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Scarletsword#4354 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Is that really so unreasonable to ask for?

Yes.

based.

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Jadian#0111 wrote:

"Hard-earned EXP" wouldn't be "hard-earned" if there were no way lose it.

Never died to lava in Minecraft? Should Minecraft patch out lava being able to destroy items?

There are ways to reduce damage taken from lava in that game, you can swim in it for a few seconds and still be ok if you got good enchantments. And there's also totem of undying. And enchanted golden apple regen+extra hearts. But that's off-topic anyway.


Does PoE have any mechanics to prevent death? No. You just die to a random oneshot and your exp is lost forever, its unfair. Its my exp, the game can't just steal it like that. Other games don't have death penalties like this, so its clearly not necessary for a fun game.

And the omen doesn't completely remove exp loss, so its useless. And I ain't paying 80c to faustus to buy that thing every time lol, that's just a band-aid fix that doesn't do much.


Exp loss is unnecessary, and if it got deleted today then people would forget it ever existed in a few weeks.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

And if it weren’t a new mode, introducing such a toggle would create an imbalance and skew the competitive landscape of a league.

Where would it stop? Would the next request be a “no character loss on death” checkbox for Hardcore, since that would be the HC equivalent of removing the death penalty in Softcore? At some point, we have to draw the line, and this is definitely that point.

these are the 2 things that i find needs to be addressed

How does the game change negatively for softcore players if xp loss is negated.

1. leaderboards.
totally agree. players can run risky content and reach 100 more quickly compared to others that dont. it iis a VERY unfair advantage.

counterpoint: fuck leaderboards. if you're really in for achievements, unless you're playing hardcore at bare minimum, the leaderboards mean NOTHING. and if i m being honest, even HC is not meaningful enough. unless you're playing SSF HC, earning a place on the leader boards can practically be bought with RMT or with a strong guild behind you.

2. player achievements
i have mentioned this and to an extent i agree. reaching 100 is an achievement. but i would say it is not the same as before. anyone can reach 100 now. even if you're using a shitty ass build. it just takes time and a boring grind.

i would say getting to 100 is no longer the achievement to be proud of. back when me and my guildies were chasing to 100. we normally played solo. but if theres any untainted paradise popping up. we would just share it and gain a ton of xp at "no cost".

but it was slow. so some of my guildies min maxed. they kept a lookout for free xp parties. they kept an eye on global 820 for free untainted paradises. some that had ammassed some wealth just bought services such as 5 ways or chayula runs.

another thing i want to address.

no character loss on death for HC.
i can agree with you on many things, but this example makes me feel you're making a very BAD FAITH argument.

HC is defined by having the player lose the character on death. thats the very essence of hardcore.

NO ONE who plays hardcore is asking for that. and if they do, then they probably shouldnt be playing hardcore.

as for softcore. well. losing xp isnt inherent in "softcore". there are 10001 rpgs out there that have a softcore mode. some have xp penalty some have no penalty. losing xp is not inherent in the "softcore" terminology.

its an incredibly petty point that you're trying to make that NO ONE is asking for.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

these are the 2 things that i find needs to be addressed

How does the game change negatively for softcore players if xp loss is negated.

1. leaderboards.
totally agree. players can run risky content and reach 100 more quickly compared to others that dont. it iis a VERY unfair advantage.

counterpoint: fuck leaderboards. if you're really in for achievements, unless you're playing hardcore at bare minimum, the leaderboards mean NOTHING. and if i m being honest, even HC is not meaningful enough. unless you're playing SSF HC, earning a place on the leader boards can practically be bought with RMT or with a strong guild behind you.

2. player achievements
i have mentioned this and to an extent i agree. reaching 100 is an achievement. but i would say it is not the same as before. anyone can reach 100 now. even if you're using a shitty ass build. it just takes time and a boring grind.

i would say getting to 100 is no longer the achievement to be proud of. back when me and my guildies were chasing to 100. we normally played solo. but if theres any untainted paradise popping up. we would just share it and gain a ton of xp at "no cost".

but it was slow. so some of my guildies min maxed. they kept a lookout for free xp parties. they kept an eye on global 820 for free untainted paradises. some that had ammassed some wealth just bought services such as 5 ways or chayula runs.

another thing i want to address.

no character loss on death for HC.
i can agree with you on many things, but this example makes me feel you're making a very BAD FAITH argument.

HC is defined by having the player lose the character on death. thats the very essence of hardcore.

NO ONE who plays hardcore is asking for that. and if they do, then they probably shouldnt be playing hardcore.

as for softcore. well. losing xp isnt inherent in "softcore". there are 10001 rpgs out there that have a softcore mode. some have xp penalty some have no penalty. losing xp is not inherent in the "softcore" terminology.

its an incredibly petty point that you're trying to make that NO ONE is asking for.

Exactly, the ladder on SC Trade might aswell not exist after day 1 when people play in a group and get giga-exp and reach 100. The only interesting thing is who's the top Delve Depth guy every league, that's it. Most people that play the game probably don't even know there's a ladder hidden in a dropdown menu on the game's website at all lol

And yeah, I'm not talking about HC or SSF here, those are optional gamemodes that people can choose. SC Trade is the default,ez mode of the game yet exp loss is forced upon everyone even though most games don't have such a harsh death penalty.

This "slippery slope" argument is such a cheap cop-out, and falls flat on its face. It can just be used as an easy response/excuse to anyone asking for literally any improvement/QOL for the game. No, I am not asking for HC to be made non-HC, nobody is. All I care about is SC Trade getting improved, which is why I made this thread. Getting to lvl100 already lost all meaning the moment legion league came out, even more so with the Unrelenting Emblems giving more exp and being a higher zone level. They already nerfed exp in normal 5-ways, they aren't touching it again. Gone are the days where it took people months to reach that level while they spam their highest-tier map. Now you over-sustain multiple stash tabs of your favorite map without trying. You're swimming in them.

What I'm asking for would make the economy more healthy, because instead of people throwing their divines at 5-way rota carries, they will actually use them for crafting, or trading for gear with other players. People like me who don't care if it takes them 500 maps to reach lvl99 and then 100 will just play the game, have fun and level up whenever.

So instead of people being forced into boring,monotonous,safe content or buying exp carries, they can just.... imagine: Play the game however they want and level up at their own pace. That is all I ask for, to be able to enjoy this game in my own way.

I don't judge people for playing SSF or HC, its none of my business how they have fun, and my idea of fun is doing hundreds of low-packsize alch&go maps to level up. No scarabs,no beyond, no deli. Nothing. Just chill mapping. Is that really so much to ask for?

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exsea#1724 wrote:

counterpoint: fuck leaderboards. if you're really in for achievements, unless you're playing hardcore at bare minimum, the leaderboards mean NOTHING. and if i m being honest, even HC is not meaningful enough. unless you're playing SSF HC, earning a place on the leader boards can practically be bought with RMT or with a strong guild behind you.

True, let’s make the leaderboards actually matter. From now on, we should only have three modes, SSF SC, SSF HC, and SSF HC Ruthless, ensuring everyone plays on a level field with no shady advantages.

SSF SC is the classic safe mode with XP penalties to prevent corpse-rushing in ladder races. SSF HC is for the brave adventurers who crave danger but still want a fair shot at the top. SSF HC Ruthless is for those who enjoy self-inflicted pain because what would PoE be without its Ruthless mode and the completely random, ruthless changes in the patchnotes? Unacceptable if we were to skip on that.

Challenge rewards should of course be Ruthless exclusive so we can all know and see who the real goats are, because everyone knows that just by playing the hardest mode you automatically rack up the highest credibility points.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I'm so confused by these comparisons to random real-life sports like golf.

How are you confused?

Golf doesn't matter. It's a game. People play it to have fun, and a large part of that fun comes from the fact that it's pretty difficult to hit a ball into a gopher hole from hundreds of yards away with an inbred hockey stick. If you undermine that core element of the game, even if a small number of players (who, let's be honest, don't even like golf all that much because if they did they'd bother getting good enough at it to actually sink a putt without a handicap) were happy that the game is easier for them to play, you are ruining the game for its core audience of enthusiasts.

That's right, I just did a No True Scotsman about GOLF. Do I win the internet now?

Anyway, I refuse to believe you're arguing in good faith if you honestly think there isn't a parallel here to videogames dumbing down core elements to cater to people who refuse to get good.