Exp loss should just be a toggle in settings/character creation

Countless threads and comments about this over the years. Since GGG seem to be adding more QOL with each patch, this would be a simple fix that works best for all players. If you dislike it, you can disable it, and if you enjoy it you can leave it enabled. Just like how people have the choice to click that little checkmark on "HC" or "SSF". This would be the same. This game is all about player agency after all. So let us choose please. I don't even care if I get less exp gained debuff while having exp loss disabled. I'll take guaranteed level-ups over the risk of losing hours of my progress, and that is exactly the reason people buy exp carries atm btw, paying someone 5 divines is better than risking losing your exp.

Give the players this choice, SC Trade is basically the easy casual mode of the game anyway. I'd like to passively gain exp and eventually level up with 0 danger of my exp bar moving backwards. And if its a toggle, then there's no downside. Everybody wins, its just the easiest solution I can think of.

Just making this thread so they hopefully plan this feature for 3.28. Let people choose how they want to play this game, instead of everyone having to play with exp loss. More choices and customization of your own gameplay is never a bad thing. This is just the solution I think is the best, if they straight-up delete exp loss I wouldn't complain either. So many people quit and uninstall because of this mechanic and that's just sad. A game that makes you go backwards in progression is just not fun, and does not feel good.

And I don't think there's any point arguing about both sides here, that's been done enough already. A simple +1 if you agree. That is all.

Here's my obligatory 1-cell bingo card:

If there were a toggle in the character-creation screen to disable the experience penalty on death, it would essentially create an entirely different game mode. So yes, should such a feature ever be introduced, let’s call it Easy-Easy Mode.

In Easy-Easy Mode, you’d be able to trade and party only with other players who chose the same mode. League challenges would still be accessible, but your rewards would be limited to a modest wooden totem hideout decoration, a simple participation trophy for taking part in the league.

And if it weren’t a new mode, introducing such a toggle would create an imbalance and skew the competitive landscape of a league. Where would it stop? Would the next request be a “no character loss on death” checkbox for Hardcore, since that would be the HC equivalent of removing the death penalty in Softcore? At some point, we have to draw the line, and this is definitely that point.

Honestly, instead of an Easy-Easy Mode, I think resources would be far better spent on reworking the campaign, adding proper tutorial material that guides players through the wide range of defensive layers available, and testing them more seriously as they progress to ensure they actually learned something. That would genuinely help the players who struggle with the death penalty, without compromising the integrity of the league environment.

But knowing GGG, they’ve learned their lesson after Ruthless and won’t introduce any further modes that only a tiny handful of players would actually play. So no, a toggle to turn off the experience penalty, or an Easy-Easy Mode, simply isn’t going to happen.

I'm not talking about HC here at all. All those modes are optional, SC Trade is the "default" of the game, so it should be made more flexible for people with different preferences. It doesn't affect you in any way how someone chooses to play the game, or if they lose their exp on death. And you can leave exp loss enabled if you enjoy it, while others can disable it. So everyone would be happy.

Its the perfect solution. Nothing is lost, its a net positive change for the game. So really there's no reason not to add a toggle for it, just like how I can toggle any league mechanic on/off in the Atlas Tree if I don't enjoy it and only farm the content I do enjoy. Same thing.

All I'm asking for here is player agency, and the ability to keep the exp which I have already earned. Its my exp, and the game taking it away is unfair and feels bad. That's all there is to it.

Nothing to do except wait for GGG to change exp loss somehow/remove it entirely. And I know that will eventually happen, because they've been much,much more open to adding QOL in recent times. So its not a matter of if, but when.

And until then? I will keep cheesing the game and buying my way to level 100 with my divines while sitting afk in a legion 5-way rota, or living in Sanctum all day. Because this is the only way for players to side-step exp penalty, this is what the game wants me to do. This is how its currently designed. I can't do anything about that.

But are you suggesting an optional mode or setting? In other words, if such a feature were introduced, would the next step be to create an optional trigger for these optional modes as well? Realistically, though, neither Hardcore nor SSF are truly optional—they’re simply modes you choose based on your personal preference.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And until then? I will keep cheesing the game and buying my way to level 100 with my divines while sitting afk in a legion 5-way rota, or living in Sanctum all day. Because this is the only way for players to side-step exp penalty, this is what the game wants me to do. This is how its currently designed. I can't do anything about that.

Well, if you already have a way to bypass the experience penalty, I’m not sure why we’re even suggesting a new mode to exist. As you’ve pointed out, such a mode or toggle would hold little to no real value, since you’re not truly affected by the penalty in the first place.

Instead of complaining about something that’s perfectly in line with the game’s design, or expecting the developers to further fragment the community by introducing a mode for the minority, it would be far more productive to take a small detour and learn how defensive mechanics work. After all, the only true way to avoid the penalty is simply by not dying. It’s almost as if these mechanics are part of the game for a reason, they’re easily accessible for players to make use of, not something to skim past, only to realize that things quickly go downhill without them.

Mechanics like 5-Way are just a matter of time before GGG reworks or removes them entirely, they’ve already received a significant nerf, so it’s only a matter of time before they’re effectively gone for good. The same applies to Sanctum, the boss fight buff prevents experience loss in the area while also preventing any experience gain. No risk, no reward.

But I'm not asking for a whole new challenge league mode. I'm asking for a simple toggle that works in any mode, or just SC Trade. Whichever is fine.

A small checkmark you can click when creating a character, you'd still be in the same league as others that have exp loss on, even if you have it off. That or a checkmark in the settings. Wouldn't change anything with the game, people would just be able to enjoy it more. Its a win-win.

I largely agree with VoidWhisperer42.

Though I would instead argue in favour of 1) it being called "Story Mode", 2) it being voided, and impossible to migrate out of, and, 3) there should be no challenge league-associated rewards whatsoever. If people just want to experience the game, cool - now they can.

It is profoundly disingenuous to suggest it would be acceptable for people who have both opted-in and opted-out of such a change to reside in the same version of a challenge league. The entire point of having different sub-leagues such as Hardcore Keepers and SSF Keepers is to distinguish between those who are playing with different levels of difficulty. Zero people would play Hardcore if they resided in the same version of the league as those not playing Hardcore. It is not credible to suggest that you can reside with people that have a different level of challenge and yet face the same economy and appear on the same leaderboard.

If this were to ever implemented, it would be an entirely separate game mode, à la Hardcore.

I hate this idea and what it would represent for the game on principle - but while we can have a realistic discussion about GGG one day implementing some variation of this if you want to, it is a waste of time to talk about people with different levels of difficulty before them sharing the same economy & leaderboard. Won't happen; never in a million years.

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Sarno#0493 wrote:

It is profoundly disingenuous to suggest it would be acceptable for people who have both opted-in and opted-out of such a change to reside in the same version of a challenge league. The entire point of having different sub-leagues such as Hardcore Keepers and SSF Keepers is to distinguish between those who are playing with different levels of difficulty. Zero people would play Hardcore if they resided in the same version of the league as those not playing Hardcore. It is not credible to suggest that you can reside with people that have a different level of challenge and yet face the same economy and appear on the same leaderboard.

If this were to ever implemented, it would be an entirely separate game mode, à la Hardcore.

I hate this idea and what it would represent for the game on principle - but while we can have a realistic discussion about GGG one day implementing some variation of this if you want to, it is a waste of time to talk about people with different levels of difficulty before them sharing the same economy & leaderboard. Won't happen; never in a million years.

What leaderboard? People get lvl100 on day 1 in Softcore. The leaderboard on SC Trade doesn't mean much today, unless you're competing for deepest Delve depth or trying to be server-first on killing a boss or something.

In HC and SSF yes they are more meaningful there, but SC is basically sandbox mode already. You can farm currency and buy whatever you want. Might aswell remove exp loss to make it truly the easiest gamemode. That's all I'm saying. No half-compromises or nothing, I want exp loss gone or made optional. Different economy or "story mode" won't cut it. I wanna play the game on SC Trade and have a 0% chance of losing my exp. Because -10% exp is just taking 1 step forward then 3 steps backwards, it makes no sense at all.

Removing exp loss would just make the game more fun and chill for casuals like me, and it would save people a lot of divines now that they won't have to go to legion 5-way rota carries. At least the people that don't mind leveling at a slow pace, I'm sure others will still pay for exp carries if they want lvl100 fast. And that's ok too. Its how they choose to play the game, and that doesn't affect me.


All I want is to do my alch&go maps, and passively gather exp until I level up without it being stolen away from me by the game. Is that really so unreasonable to ask for? The feeling of losing exp is so demotivating, it ruins my whole mood for the entire day and makes me not want to play the game at all.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

If there were a toggle in the character-creation screen to disable the experience penalty on death, it would essentially create an entirely different game mode. So yes, should such a feature ever be introduced, let’s call it Easy-Easy Mode.

Do not feed the trolls. This post is just a response to several post currently on page 1 about death penalties.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Is that really so unreasonable to ask for?

Yes.

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Scarletsword#4354 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Is that really so unreasonable to ask for?

Yes.

No, it really isn't. I'm making a completely normal request. Last Epoch does not have exp loss, and it felt amazing to play that game. It was refreshing even. My mind was blown that an ARPG can actually exist and be fun without this on-death penalty.