Unlocking the Bloodline Ascendancies is problematic for people that just want to build around them.

in case of Lycia you kinda have to play Build A to play Build B. it sucks

i saw on reddit that it has to be Lycia 81+. GOOD luck with that, with even GETTING to ger on a build not at least partially purpose built for sanctum (relics or no relics)


i do not have issues with boss-gated mechanics, but Lycia and entire Sanctum is just TOO FAR detached from what regular POE. it is simply bad choice for bloodline gateway, sadly - a choice repeated after POE2 'resounding success' of gating ascendancy with Sanctum

Lycia,Aul and Simulacrum are gonna be pretty annoying for players to get. Sanctum requires a lot of dps, Simulacrum requires specific builds to clear wave 15 and Aul is just rare and annoying af to find and not everybody enjoys delving 24/7.

So people will most likely just buy carries for Lycia and Simulacrum, and buy a delve taxi to go kill Aul themselves, or if their build can't and they don't have any light radius and flare upgrades then they'd have to staright up buy an Aul boss carry.

People doing boss carries will be swimming in divines early league lmao

I hope you will also think of this in the aspect of how this might encourage players to complete these fights for the first time.

These bloodline ascendancy's will be guaranteed if you win and hold a lot of value, this is a really good move by GGG.

Otherwise what are peoples motivations? an 0.00001% drop or a unique that is worth 1c?

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clawface#4668 wrote:

How rare is Farrul and Aul? Like you get to see them once per league or every other one?

Farrul is not difficult to find if you spec Einhar on your Atlas for a bit. Prerequisite is running area level 80 maps so just a headsup there

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Lycia,Aul and Simulacrum are gonna be pretty annoying for players to get. Sanctum requires a lot of dps, Simulacrum requires specific builds to clear wave 15 and Aul is just rare and annoying af to find and not everybody enjoys delving 24/7.

So people will most likely just buy carries for Lycia and Simulacrum, and buy a delve taxi to go kill Aul themselves, or if their build can't and they don't have any light radius and flare upgrades then they'd have to staright up buy an Aul boss carry.

People doing boss carries will be swimming in divines early league lmao

That’s not entirely true, maybe with the exception of Aul.
Sanctum doesn’t really require a high-damage setup, and we’ve already seen that back during its own league. Any build sitting around 2–5 million DPS is more than enough, since Sanctum is more about learning basic enemy attack patterns than brute-forcing through them. If anything, it’s only gotten easier since being added to the core game, and literally anyone could do it.

Simulacrum also doesn’t need a specific build lol
It’s just endgame content, and higher waves simply ask for better gear and a more optimized setup, something also anyone can achieve with enough effort. But looking at many of the Bloodline nodes themselves, especially those tied to Simulacrum, most of them do expect you to put some investment into your build to make them actually work. So players who already don’t engage in any form of min-maxing or endgame content alone aren’t really missing out just because certain Bloodlines are tied to that kind of content. Even Aul, who’s the hardest to find, serves such a niche purpose, probably only for aura bots, that it doesn’t really matter his Bloodline is gated behind deep delving.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

So people will most likely just buy carries for Lycia and Simulacrum

Both of those Bloodlines won’t come anywhere close to shaping the meta, so most players will probably ignore them entirely.
Only those who don’t follow build guides or chase whatever’s popular might bother adding them in, and by the time they do, they’ll already have a solid character capable of clearing the content on their own anyway.

Minion builds will definitely see a surge this league, but both fights Catarina and Farrul are honestly so easy that it’s hard to imagine anyone needing to buy a carry for them. Especially Farrul, who’s been around forever and has some of the lowest gear requirements out of the bunch.
Realistically, what’s going to happen is that the market’s going to be bone dry. The easy fights won’t sell nearly as much as people think, and the "harder" or more niche Bloodlines will sell even less simply because the demand just isn’t there. Most players actually run that content themselves, so the idea of making big profits off carry runs feels pretty far fetched. The one group that’s likely to come out ahead this league are the beast farmers, especially early on thanks to that one extra valuable beast added to the pool.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Both of those Bloodlines won’t come anywhere close to shaping the meta, so most players will probably ignore them entirely.
Only those who don’t follow build guides or chase whatever’s popular might bother adding them in, and by the time they do, they’ll already have a solid character capable of clearing the content on their own anyway.

I dunno, also 2-5 mil dps is not nearly enough for sanctum unless you have like giga-relics and 800 inspiration going into a boss room. Like the fights are gonna take SOOO long if you aren't bursting them down. A lot of people also just hate Sanctum as a mechanic, and don't wanna run it. The ascendancy requiring you to do it at lvl81 minimum will result in people simply buying a carry. And I'll happily sell my final room to people if they pay me at least 1 divine lol, or do carries for free. And what do you mean Lycia ascendancy won't shape the meta? Have you seen some of the herald-stacking nonsense people have come up with using this thing? If it isn't nerfed before release people will 10000% play it lol, I'd certainly copy that build since I can get a friend to carry the Sanctum boss for me for free.

And no, not any build can just do all 15 waves of simulacrum. You need a specialized build for that content. And you could still get unlucky mods that make enemies tanky af and just die 6 times anyways. People will 100% pay a few divs just to join someone's party at the end of wave 15, and just afk with the 1 min immunity buff then go click the ascendancy statue thing.

I'm talking about the average player who follows a build guide here. Most will definitely simply buy boss carries, especially if their build needs these ascendancies to even be online. They can't do the boss because they need the ascendancy first, its a paradox so they'll just throw some divs to someone else to solve it.

They even said it themselves during the reveal livestream "kill those bosses, or have a friend help". They expect people to ask for carries to unlock these. Like you can't go expecting every player following a leaguestarter build guide to just be able to kill all of these bosses, let alone do a full Simulacrum. That one is probably the hardest, and 2nd hardest to get will be Aul.

And Aul is the same deal as Sanctum, some people don't like delve and I'm one of them lmao ain't no way I'm gonna farm for days for this boss encounter. Not using his ascendancy anyways, Farrul is way better for what I want and all I have to do to fight him is buy a beast off trade.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And no, not any build can just do all 15 waves of simulacrum. You need a specialized build for that content. And you could still get unlucky mods that make enemies tanky af and just die 6 times anyways.

True, unoptimized not remotely geared characters can't do wave 15, but that's more of a build problem rather than a content problem.
There's no need for a specialized build because you can reach the required power level on any build if you want to lol

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And no, not any build can just do all 15 waves of simulacrum. You need a specialized build for that content. And you could still get unlucky mods that make enemies tanky af and just die 6 times anyways.

True, unoptimized not remotely geared characters can't do wave 15, but that's more of a build problem rather than a content problem.
There's no need for a specialized build because you can reach the required power level on any build if you want to lol

Assuming any build can reach that power. Which is just not realistic. And also assuming anyone wants to farm so much currency for so long just to get their 2 ascendancy points. Most people will resort to TFT carries because its either impossible for their build or far too annoying. Its simply untrue that "every build can reach the power to do 15 simulacrum waves". Some simply aren't designed for this content, but they might want the borrowed power from that ascendancy.

And if you're just following a build guide, and the build itself can't function without the ascendancy. What do you do then? Your only real choice is to have someone help you with the boss/encounter. Why do you think lab carries have existed for so many years. Its the same thing here but with these new bloodline ascendancies. Most people want their full 8 points by like yellow maps at the latest, so they'll either ask for help or pay someone X Divines.


You're putting way WAY too much expectation onto the random player. Its just not how this is gonna play out. Most will choose carries, because its either easier or its their only viable choice. At least for the few annoying ones to unlock. And stuff like Trialmaster too, most people wouldn't wanna spend the currency and time to farm him with a full atlas tree and scarab setup(and a chance of dying and losing the fight). Instead they will sit in someone's hideout waiting for that person to get the encounter, then enter their map and afk.

Most of the other ones have reasonable unlocks like Oshabi,Farrul,Catarina(questionable, some people might still pay for a carry if the carry is cheaper than the medallion itself),King in the Mists(also kinda iffy, maze phase is one of the worst things ever and you could just die cus the wisps don't lead you anywhere) etc.


I'll happily run all my sanctum tomes and call in people from 420 and 820 chat to get their ascendancies for free,or sell it for a few divs if its that popular lol

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I dunno, also 2-5 mil dps is not nearly enough for sanctum unless you have like giga-relics and 800 inspiration going into a boss room. Like the fights are gonna take SOOO long if you aren't bursting them down. A lot of people also just hate Sanctum as a mechanic, and don't wanna run it.

It’s more than enough to run it, we’ve already seen that during Sanctum League itself. Keep in mind it was actually harder back then. Also, 2–5 million is something you hit really early on and surpass pretty easily.

By the time you’re even thinking about picking up Bloodline nodes for some extra min-maxing, most decent and somewhat optimized builds are already sitting at 10x that damage. The content doesn’t actually get any harder just because Bloodlines exist the only thing that changes is that people have some new toys to play around with.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The ascendancy requiring you to do it at lvl81 minimum

Not even the highest one , how tragic. GGG’s really pushing the limits of player expectations.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And I'll happily sell my final room to people if they pay me at least 1 divine lol, or do carries for free. And what do you mean Lycia ascendancy won't shape the meta? Have you seen some of the herald-stacking nonsense people have come up with using this thing? If it isn't nerfed before release people will 10000% play it lol, I'd certainly copy that build since I can get a friend to carry the Sanctum boss for me for free.

That’s quite an interesting claim. So, you’re saying you’ll sell your final rooms for a divine, but also that your friend’s going to carry you through the last one for free? I don’t know, sounds a bit like you’re not really selling anything after all.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And no, not any build can just do all 15 waves of simulacrum. You need a specialized build for that content. And you could still get unlucky mods that make enemies tanky af and just die 6 times anyways.

Oh yes, any endgame viable build with some level of optimization can handle Wave 15 Simulacrum. That’s really the point, it’s endgame content, not midgame alc & go shenanigans. Anyone following a decent build guide can manage it, even as an average player, as long as they understand the basics of the build and the game. Most of the existing, well-crafted guides are already at power levels far beyond what’s actually needed to complete the content, so it tends to be more straightforward than some might expect.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I'm talking about the average player who follows a build guide here. Most will definitely simply buy boss carries, especially if their build needs these ascendancies to even be online. They can't do the boss because they need the ascendancy first, its a paradox so they'll just throw some divs to someone else to solve it.

Most of these nodes are simply additional power for endgame builds. By the time you reach the content, your build is already online and fully functional, with all eight ascendancy nodes ready to go more than enough to spare two, or in some cases even four, for your newly acquired Bloodline nodes. For the average player following a decent build guide, this means they’ll naturally pick up the Bloodlines around the time they actually need them, rather than long before.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Assuming any build can reach that power. Which is just not realistic.

We don't have to assume this cause everyone can do it if they want to, and that's just a fact lol
What's truly realistic is that everyone can engage in some level of character optimization if they want to even without intense currency grinding.
Your idea of items being too expensive or the game being too grindy just shows the difference between the mindset you approach the game with and how most others play the game. Cause you may or may not be surprised but most play argps to get more and more powerful and live their power fantasy, and not to be stuck halfway through the content.