fix rate for chaos / divine exchange , like coin/bill

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Flying_Gecko#4453 wrote:

I would rather say noone removes the excess chaos in standard because its a graveyard, where a Chaos in inself does not get you anywhere. But the solution it not a fixed trading ratio, which would in turn hurt every currency valued above the Chaos as its value gets hardrealined, it's a meaningful sink for players to get rid of the stockpiled Chaos.
Actually we saw this in Mercenaries economy quite well. When T16.5 Maps rolled as high value 8mod corrupted, way less Chaos were used rolling Maps. The Chaos devalued, as it got less use. When the fix for the T16.5 Maps happened, the market corrected as more Chaos were used again.

You says that a change in T16.5 maps used only by very high level character (i guess less than 5%) had an impact on ALL the currency system for the 95% of other players, and you consider this is not a bug ?

POE economy is an open system, at start there is zero and it can rise without limit, so it cannot be compared with real economy (where government do like GGG, they interfere when things go very wrong cf 1929, 2008 ...)
You say this has already caused trouble at previous end league.
This is due to a technical choice : no anchor.

I guess current sudden change is due to "aware" people doing conversion now, before the change to standard league, and this explain why the rate are becoming similar between both leagues.

btw my best loot was selling my unused stuff and changing it to divine in order to buy a weapon. If i had done this one week later i would have lost 20 divine.
So i won 20 divine in 5 minutes ! i am stronger than all the professional players doing nice tutorials. :-(

I thought i was playing a nice MMORPG (or alike), not a bogus trading game were i can win/lose more in 5 minutes trade than in one month of play.

You mean, add a divine orb to a vendor and establish a firm price on it with chaos orbs, like for example a regret orb that costs 2 scouring orbs?

Eh, I don't think this is a good idea.

Vendors offer fixed exchange rates on bubble currency and that's good enough.

POE 1 doesn't have a problem of runaway inflations when it comes to DIV:C exchange rates. High tier currency like locks, mirrors etc. do experience inflation over time in league but that's kinda expected, these high tier currencies are extremely rare and hard to get naturally. As players quit the league there are less and less of those dropped naturally, while divines have been farmed to hell and back by then.

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Esubane#6099 wrote:

You mean, add a divine orb to a vendor and establish a firm price on it with chaos orbs, like for example a regret orb that costs 2 scouring orbs?

Eh, I don't think this is a good idea.

Vendors offer fixed exchange rates on bubble currency and that's good enough.

POE 1 doesn't have a problem of runaway inflations when it comes to DIV:C exchange rates.

Ok, maybe a better idea than my initial proposal is to add monetary-only unit for big transactions, hecto-chaos, 10k-chaos, M-chaos or a numerical box in trade window to write the amount directly, this would suppress the need to conversion for trade.

The intrinsic value of divine is mostly zero, they are used for trade/exchange like an hecto-chaos.

- how many divines did you use to "Randomises the values of the random modifiers on an item", or for benchcrafting (i don't know other use of it) ?
me <5%

- how many did you used for trade ?
me >95%

This shows divine values is mostly financial, not due to its intrinsic value/effect, and the whole POE econmy relies on it.

Due to this I would have lost a very significant part of my POE-wealth if i had not luckily decided to sell chaos stuff and buy divines, this is not sane system.

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Esubane#6099 wrote:

You mean, add a divine orb to a vendor and establish a firm price on it with chaos orbs, like for example a regret orb that costs 2 scouring orbs?

Eh, I don't think this is a good idea.

Vendors offer fixed exchange rates on bubble currency and that's good enough.

POE 1 doesn't have a problem of runaway inflations when it comes to DIV:C exchange rates. High tier currency like locks, mirrors etc. do experience inflation over time in league but that's kinda expected, these high tier currencies are extremely rare and hard to get naturally. As players quit the league there are less and less of those dropped naturally, while divines have been farmed to hell and back by then.

i join high level players maps and see lots of currency orbs dropping. i found 7d by myself this whole league, but today i picked up 2d in other people's map, it was filled to the screen with chrom fusing alt jeweller and other cheap orbs.

is the drop rate uniformly scaled in these maps? so if N fusings drop for every 1d in bad maps like the maps i do, is this ratio the same in good maps? is it also preserved for mirror to d, mirror shard to d, and hinekora lock to d?

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Dolgrund#5637 wrote:

The intrinsic value of divine is mostly zero, they are used for trade/exchange like an hecto-chaos.

- how many divines did you use to "Randomises the values of the random modifiers on an item", or for benchcrafting (i don't know other use of it) ?
me <5%

- how many did you used for trade ?
me >95%

This shows divine values is mostly financial, not due to its intrinsic value/effect, and the whole POE econmy relies on it.

All this shows that you don't understand the intrinsic value of Divines.
The reason they have financial value is because people use them.

It's obviously easier to get the items you want by trading Divines to people who will use them to make items than by making the items yourself--but that still requires that somebody use them. Otherwise, Divines (supply) would amass without any sinks (demand), leading to lower value of Divines, and rates of like 10c per Divine.



Try looking back at the value of Divines in the past:

https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Sentinel/Currency/Divine%20Orb/3
https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Lake%20of%20Kalandra/Currency/Divine%20Orb/3

These leagues were back to back, yet the difference in value is stark, isn't it? There's a reason for that:

https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Sentinel/Currency/Exalted%20Orb/2
https://poe-antiquary.xyz/Lake%20of%20Kalandra/Currency/Exalted%20Orb/2
3.19.0 Lake of Kalandra Patch Notes, "Exalted and Divine Orbs" section:

"

Divine Orbs and Exalted Orbs actually have the same drop rate, but Exalted Orbs are worth so much more in trade value because there's no easy vendor recipe for them and because they're consumed when you craft certain meta-mods onto items.

Out of these two currency items, we would actually prefer the Divine Orb effect to be rarer, so that unique items with good rolls matter more, and so that players can exalt-craft their items more frequently.

We are making two changes that will impact this. Firstly, we are changing the cost of crafting metamods so that they cost Divine Orbs rather than Exalted Orbs. Secondly, we are changing the 6-link vendor recipe to grant 20 Orbs of Fusing rather than a Divine Orb.

this ex <-> divine switcheroo was one of the best decisions they could make and it unironically came in one of the worst POE leagues ever made.

-Crafting makes more sense, where adding modifiers comes before rolling numerical values of modifiers
-Unique items rolls matter now. Well rolled uniques have much better value than average or bad ones.

Exalted orb had more support in general as it was divisable into shards (harbinger farming value) and it had a lot of divination card support. But over time they added more divine orb cards.

Thanks for the links, explainations, and historical vues. This is far more tricky than i thought!

I wonder what would be the value of divine if a hecto-chaos trade-only-currency was created (my obsessional 100c bill ;), but i guess this will not be tried.

I go back to trade, and buy several golden oils and other expensive stuff to add diversity in my currencies, to not be spoiled whith the upcoming transfert to standard league, and be abble to continue.

This is my first character who goes beyond level 90, currently 97 with more than 100div, i hope i can reach L100 in standard and explore the very high end game stuff.
Cheers