[3.20] Gryph's Burning Witch - CoC Volatile Dead Necromancer - Burn Yourself Through the Atlas!

I'm thinking of rerolling a character since I got 36 challenges with bleed SST. I've got around 30ex to spend currently. I'm currently torn between your CoC and suicidal minions build. With my budget in mind, which would be a better choice? I tried some CoC builds earlier this league and I don't like the fact that I need to juggle between acc, crit, stun imm, and a way to stay alive. Seems like an impossible task unless I commit 101% of my currencies into the build, does your CoC face similar issues?

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ericchongws wrote:

I'm thinking of rerolling a character since I got 36 challenges with bleed SST. I've got around 30ex to spend currently. I'm currently torn between your CoC and suicidal minions build. With my budget in mind, which would be a better choice? I tried some CoC builds earlier this league and I don't like the fact that I need to juggle between acc, crit, stun imm, and a way to stay alive. Seems like an impossible task unless I commit 101% of my currencies into the build, does your CoC face similar issues?

Yes, these are all hurdles that you'd have to overcome with this build as well. I honestly think that a lot of people that are dropping this are doing so because they didn't pick up enough accuracy/stun immunity/etc...If you're missing one of these pieces you feel it.

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Gryphenprey wrote:

Yes, these are all hurdles that you'd have to overcome with this build as well. I honestly think that a lot of people that are dropping this are doing so because they didn't pick up enough accuracy/stun immunity/etc...If you're missing one of these pieces you feel it.

I see that you tried both this and your suicidal minions build, which do you personally prefer/recommend?

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ericchongws wrote:

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Gryphenprey wrote:

Yes, these are all hurdles that you'd have to overcome with this build as well. I honestly think that a lot of people that are dropping this are doing so because they didn't pick up enough accuracy/stun immunity/etc...If you're missing one of these pieces you feel it.

I see that you tried both this and your suicidal minions build, which do you personally prefer/recommend?

That's tough to be honest. I've played this build for 4 leagues whereas the Suicide Squad is a brand new build for me that I'm excited to start with in 3.16...

That said, I think the Squad out performs this one overall but probably an 8/10 for fun factor vs CoC VD being a 10/10 imo. That is subjective of course. And the fact that I can cleanly clear Sirus 8 on the Suicide Squad is a big boon. (just uploaded a video for that if you care to see)

By looking at your 3.15 videos and doing some math on your pob using your CoC skills trigger rates and cwdt cast rate. It seems that you do not have enough mana regen and leech to sustain all the triggered skills. According to your pob, your mana is 225, regen is 36.9, and mana leech on hit is 267.

Desecrate is 21*6.23 = 130.83
Volatile dead is 29*6.23 = 180.67
Ball lightning is 36*3.79 = 136.44
Wave of conv is 29*3.79 = 109.91
Offering is 65*3.49 = 226.85

Effective mana = 225 (base) + 36.9 (regen) + 267 (leech) = 528.9 per second
All your triggered skill = 700+ per second

Not counting assassin mark and ice golem, it seems that you're not able to sustain enough mana to consistently trigger your main damage skills. Is my math off? Still new to coc and cwdt mana calculations.

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ericchongws wrote:

By looking at your 3.15 videos and doing some math on your pob using your CoC skills trigger rates and cwdt cast rate. It seems that you do not have enough mana regen and leech to sustain all the triggered skills. According to your pob, your mana is 225, regen is 36.9, and mana leech on hit is 267.

Desecrate is 21*6.23 = 130.83
Volatile dead is 29*6.23 = 180.67
Ball lightning is 36*3.79 = 136.44
Wave of conv is 29*3.79 = 109.91
Offering is 65*3.49 = 226.85

Effective mana = 225 (base) + 36.9 (regen) + 267 (leech) = 528.9 per second
All your triggered skill = 700+ per second

Not counting assassin mark and ice golem, it seems that you're not able to sustain enough mana to consistently trigger your main damage skills. Is my math off? Still new to coc and cwdt mana calculations.

You're forgetting damage taken recouped as mana over 4 seconds mods. :)

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Gryphenprey wrote:

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ericchongws wrote:

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Gryphenprey wrote:

Yes, these are all hurdles that you'd have to overcome with this build as well. I honestly think that a lot of people that are dropping this are doing so because they didn't pick up enough accuracy/stun immunity/etc...If you're missing one of these pieces you feel it.

I see that you tried both this and your suicidal minions build, which do you personally prefer/recommend?

That's tough to be honest. I've played this build for 4 leagues whereas the Suicide Squad is a brand new build for me that I'm excited to start with in 3.16...

That said, I think the Squad out performs this one overall but probably an 8/10 for fun factor vs CoC VD being a 10/10 imo. That is subjective of course. And the fact that I can cleanly clear Sirus 8 on the Suicide Squad is a big boon. (just uploaded a video for that if you care to see)

I've played neither builds (working on the COC one) but having seen vids/stream of both I would say that tthis one (or doublecoc) shits on the suicide squad when it comes to mapping while suicide squad seems slightly better at bossing.

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GoldPush wrote:

I've played neither builds (working on the COC one) but having seen vids/stream of both I would say that tthis one (or doublecoc) shits on the suicide squad when it comes to mapping while suicide squad seems slightly better at bossing.

Yeah the mapping is great on Cyclone CoC VD. But it's by no means bad on the Suicide Squad. Especially with ignite prolifs and good pack density. It is, imo, a LOT better for bossing. 1 Sentinel of purity exploding is good for 9 million damage and about 5 million burning ground degen on end game gear. Combine that with the ability to keep some distance and I think it far outperforms CoCVD for bosses.

Of course, I could be bad at bossing with CoC Cyclone so there is that. :P

Overall I'd still say the Burning Witch is the more fun build to play. Particularly if you like Cyclone+CoC mapping. Though she will struggle with bossing more simply because of mechanics (having to melee, less DPS).

I'm more excited to play with the Suicide Squad because
A: it's new and exciting! I've played Burning Witch for 4 leagues in a row.
B: Bossing feels better. I probably need to just "get gud" but deleting Sirus 8 like it was pre 3.15 nerfs feels damn good as I have always struggled a lot with that fight on CoC Cyclone builds (melee-ing him is pain)
C: Mapping still feels fine. It's not as smooth a this one, but it doesn't *feel* slow either.

I wrote both builds so I am happy if people play either one. These are just my thoughts and experiences. Fun is also subjective. Fun for me is different than fun for other people.

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Gryphenprey wrote:

I wrote both builds so I am happy if people play either one. These are just my thoughts and experiences. Fun is also subjective. Fun for me is different than fun for other people.

Oh absolutely and I totally get it. I mean I have a FR totem build with asenaths and that maps about the same as suicide squad but also is amazing vs bosses.

Btw "starting to coc around 68-70", what points can you actually drop at that point to make it as functional as possible if you buy all the end game gear necessary (Ive made the 4way chest, got the martyr, clusters, WE, lgoh spell ring etc).

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GoldPush wrote:

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Gryphenprey wrote:

I wrote both builds so I am happy if people play either one. These are just my thoughts and experiences. Fun is also subjective. Fun for me is different than fun for other people.

Oh absolutely and I totally get it. I mean I have a FR totem build with asenaths and that maps about the same as suicide squad but also is amazing vs bosses.

Btw "starting to coc around 68-70", what points can you actually drop at that point to make it as functional as possible if you buy all the end game gear necessary (Ive made the 4way chest, got the martyr, clusters, WE, lgoh spell ring etc).

You just want to make sure you've filled out the crit/staff crit nodes mainly. And then the skeleton of the tree.