[3.24] Frostbolt/Ice Nova Hierophant | 100m DPS | All Content

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Because he has massive PoB fluff (including a lower EHP than claimed--7.9K). Let's uncheck Vaal RF, Vaal Haste, replace Awakened Spell Echo with a 21/20 Spell Echo, uncheck have you killed recently, and uncheck inspiration charges to get a more accurate measure of single target. I actually had to reimport his character because PoB was calculating DPS with 5 inspiration charges despite the lack of Inspiration Support, and I couldn't get rid of it.

Here's a more accurate single target PoB: https://pastebin.com/9VMDHkTS

15.2 mil, which translates to about 46 mil actual DPS, assuming you can actually satisfy all of the buff conditions. For those wondering why normal Spell Echo over Awakened, it's because Ice Nova cast on Frostbolt doesn't benefit from echo repeat buffs, i.e. no chance to deal double damage with the final repeat. I manually edited one of his flasks to give more cast speed and less damage to bring Spell Echo in line with the stats of Awakened Spell Echo.

You are correct on EHP being lower. It was my understanding that MoM consider ES in damage, but I was wrong. Also, I have no idea why inspiration carried over from league start build. I rebuilt it from scratch and it doesn't include it now, but it seemed to be a visual bug. Damage is still showing at 26.8m DPS:

COMMUNITY FORK POB: https://pastebin.com/XHkdQ3XV

I didn't mean any harm in posting the POB, I'm down to admit to mistakes; I didn't know about the change in multiplier or awakened spell echo interaction in POB. I used this guide's POB and Esoro's POB as a foundation for the build and use the community fork.

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So in summary:
* The build was NOT actually bugged or nerfed DPS-wise
* The area IS nerfed (increasing area per repeat was not intended).
* My recommendations for the build should be unchanged
* Awakened Spell Echo might be less valuable than previously thought. Level 5/20 Awakened Spell Echo is still better than 21/23 normal Spell Echo, but it might be worse before you get to Level 5.
* My DPS estimation was too high. Basically we will have to change the multipliers to get from PoB DPS to real DPS.
* PoB (Unforked/Openarl): Old multiplier = 10x, New multiplier = 6.5x
* PoB (Forked/LocalIdentity); Old multiplier = 6.5x, New multiplier = 4.3x

Example: My current DPS is 7m in Forked PoB, so multiplying it by 4.3 we get 30m real Shaper DPS.

Again, I was not aware of the above, but those conditions you mention are not hard to hit. Most end game bosses have ads outside of Sirus. Unchecking Vaal RF and Vaal Haste is a bit conservative especially when considering Delirium/Simulacrum Kosis and Omni, Shaper Guardians, Shaper, Elder, etc. Lastly, you can go into my POB, replace awakened spell echo with a 21/22 anomalous spell echo and my DPS is still at 25.5m (or 110M considering post POB multiplier of 4.3 from OP, you gave mine 3).

I understand I'm no POB expert or someone that has played with this build outside of 1 league. If 4.3 is not the right multiplier to use and 3 is correct, I'm willing to admit you're correct and move on, but why 3? I don't want to sit in the dark on these things and think my DPS is higher than it actually is. Also I'm not bashing on OP's build or your suggestions, it was a lot of fun (I just like more damage, and your gear is mad hard to craft).

could someone give a look at my POB to see what can i upgrade to get better dps ? https://pastebin.com/TnZyW4BL

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Nihigami wrote:

I understand I'm no POB expert or someone that has played with this build outside of 1 league. If 4.3 is not the right multiplier to use and 3 is correct, I'm willing to admit you're correct and move on, but why 3? I don't want to sit in the dark on these things and think my DPS is higher than it actually is. Also I'm not bashing on OP's build or your suggestions, it was a lot of fun (I just like more damage, and your gear is mad hard to craft).

The most up to date DPS calculation using fork from OP in his Google Doc suggest 3.6 is the correct multiplication.


Direct Extracted from said Document;

Ice Nova on Frostbolt is 8× DPS vs. plain Ice Nova (on self)
[2×]: Ice Nova expands from two Frostbolt projectiles
Both can shotgun the same target
[4×]: No-lockdown interaction between Frostbolt/Ice Nova/Spell Echo
If Ice Nova is cast on Frostbolt, its echoes don’t lock down the caster
Initial cast + 3 echoes (SE+GSE) → 4× DPS
But: (1) Frostbolt casts reduce DPS, (2) some Ice Novas will miss
Actual DPS ≈ 3.6× PoB DPS
For full details, see FAQ section on PoB

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Again, I was not aware of the above, but those conditions you mention are not hard to hit. Most end game bosses have ads outside of Sirus. Unchecking Vaal RF and Vaal Haste is a bit conservative especially when considering Delirium/Simulacrum Kosis and Omni, Shaper Guardians, Shaper, Elder, etc. Lastly, you can go into my POB, replace awakened spell echo with a 21/22 anomalous spell echo and my DPS is still at 25.5m (or 110M considering post POB multiplier of 4.3 from OP, you gave mine 3).

I understand I'm no POB expert or someone that has played with this build outside of 1 league. If 4.3 is not the right multiplier to use and 3 is correct, I'm willing to admit you're correct and move on, but why 3? I don't want to sit in the dark on these things and think my DPS is higher than it actually is. Also I'm not bashing on OP's build or your suggestions, it was a lot of fun (I just like more damage, and your gear is mad hard to craft).

No one checks these vaal skills because they are just far to situational, they don't actually reflect your real damage output they are buffs that last for 4 seconds not only that you use Vhaste and VRF which both have miss matched soul gain prevention timings 6s and 12 seconds so you will almost never have them on at the same time ever.

Lets say you use them both together and you just wait the 12 seconds so you can use both at the same time you now have to get 90 souls because vaal skills don't share souls, so you have 2 buffs which you get for 4 seconds which go on cooldown for 12+ seconds, after soul gain prevention is up you aren't going to get 90 souls immediately even on juiced maps so even in a really good situation lets say it takes you 3 seconds to get 90 souls and you activate both skills immediately, in 1 minute of play time you will have roughly both skills active for 12 seconds even in a good situation that's about 20% uptime so ticking vaal Haste/RF isnt a very good indication of your dps.

That being said if you are only using them for bosses then we can change the argument for a second and that being its not really your dps is it, its your dps for 4 seconds and even then if you mistime your vaal skills or the boss does some bs well there goes your damage,if you're going to make damage claims then you better be able to produce that level of dps for more then 4 seconds.
Also why would you use herald of ice, why would any MoM build ever reserve 25% of thier mana?

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No one checks these vaal skills because they are just far to situational, they don't actually reflect your real damage output they are buffs that last for 4 seconds not only that you use Vhaste and VRF which both have miss matched soul gain prevention timings 6s and 12 seconds so you will almost never have them on at the same time ever.

I see a lot of POBs with Vaal skills checked from prominent build makers, but I get the reasoning.

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That being said if you are only using them for bosses then we can change the argument for a second and that being its not really your dps is it, its your dps for 4 seconds and even then if you mistime your vaal skills or the boss does some bs well there goes your damage,if you're going to make damage claims then you better be able to produce that level of dps for more then 4 seconds.

I would say most part people save DPS based Vaal skills for boss or boss-like encounters. I mean what's the point of measuring Shaper DPS if you want to know your mapping DPS? If the build can kill Shaper phases and Guardians within the time span of Vaal RF, and Vaal RF/Haste can be consistently used against them, is it wrong to say my POB Shaper DPS is 25M (granted ROFL's point about unchecking if I have killed recently is validated here if we are talking purely Shaper and not Guardians)? I say this not trying to mean that Shaper DPS outside of a Shaper burst is not meaningful. It's just interesting to see you coming from a perspective of mapping in the first part of your comment.

When it comes to mistiming your vaal skills or other bs, well you can make an argument for many modifiers at that point, IE Vaal Grace, flasks, positioning, intensity, etc. In the end it's up to you to make sure to play correctly to maximize output.

On a side note, to be clear I've never really shared my POBs with other people or knew what the generally accepted standards were for them, so this info is still good to know (I have once before but on a dead meme build).

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Also why would you use herald of ice, why would any MoM build ever reserve 25% of their mana?

It's used situationally to make mapping feel better or when I want some extra damage/xplode and survivability is guaranteed/doesn't matter. It can be nice when your nova doesn't touch the entire mob pack and HOI clears the edges (I typically just like throwing out one cast of ice nova when clearing). I do switch out for Vaal grace when needed.

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I would say most part people save DPS based Vaal skills for boss or boss-like encounters. I mean what's the point of measuring Shaper DPS if you want to know your mapping DPS? If the build can kill Shaper phases and Guardians within the time span of Vaal RF, and Vaal RF/Haste can be consistently used against them, is it wrong to say my POB Shaper DPS is 25M (granted ROFL's point about unchecking if I have killed recently is validated here if we are talking purely Shaper and not Guardians)? I say this not trying to mean that Shaper DPS outside of a Shaper burst is not meaningful. It's just interesting to see you coming from a perspective of mapping in the first part of your comment.

I wouldn't say its wrong to say you can achieve 25m shaper dps but the caveat is that you only get 25m shaper vs some bosses, you get 1 use during any of the elder guardians so your 25m is only relevent for 1/3rd of the fight, you arnt getting any use from your vaal skills during Sirus, you will get 1 use during uber elder during what the 7 phases uber elder has so you only get your 25m for 1/7th of that fight. Same deal for aztiri you will get 1 use for her 3 phases so its 1/3rd of the fight, You will have no uses during any of the maven atlas fights. You will probably get 1 use during the 7 maven phases so thats 1/7th of the fight and will get it for 1/2 of the elder fight. However You will get it guaranteed for Shaper/shaper guardians/Map Bosses/Conqorers(1/2 for Drox).

My point is although you can guarantee 25m on some fights for a lot of relevant content you either cant use it at all or you get 25m for 1/3rd or 1/7th of a fight.

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On a side note, to be clear I've never really shared my POBs with other people or knew what the generally accepted standards were for them, so this info is still good to know (I have once before but on a dead meme build).

I wouldn't sweat it too much some people can be unnecessarily ruthless with pob's, I mean just look at reddit those people dont hold back for a second. My rule of thumb is if im adding something to my build/POB or posting my pob I need to be able to explain why stuff is ticked and it has to be realistically applicable most of the time, I use VaalRF myself but I know I cant realistically apply it enough of the time to say im running around at this dps amount.

would it be beneficial to use Awakened Hextouch Support amd link both ele weakness and frostbite with frostbolt? rn i don't feel big difference with faster attack support so i'm thinking about this.

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would it be beneficial to use Awakened Hextouch Support amd link both ele weakness and frostbite with frostbolt? rn i don't feel big difference with faster attack support so i'm thinking about this.

Do you mean faster casting? And Awakened Hextouch does bump up the damage quite a bit, but at that level of investment I would make sure that other investment opportunities are considered (Lv 5 Awakened Hextouch being 24ex in Ritual atm). Faster casting does add a bit of smoothness to the build just because you can go through the animation of sending out frostbolts a little faster and bumps up the mana cost of frostbolt to the point you can use a level 7 arcane surge.

I made a thing

I am willing to push my dude to absolute max, can someone help? This helm and these gloves

are my next upgrades. Want to do Maven without her launching the last memory game. Tailwind/Elusive boots next.

Also, adding to the discussion: if Vaal RF time is enough to phase/kill the boss (like Maven last phase) - then including it in PoB is fair game. You can always drop Vaal Grace to put Haste or RF in that slot for a big burst, but I guess only one of those, since Soul Gain and stuff, you will be able to get Vaal RF on Sirus last phase, BTW.

First of all I want to say a huge thanks to you for this build guide. I really enjoyed it during Heist League. I liked the presantation you made to eyplain everything in detail. The time and efforts you spent into this build guide have to be huge. But in my opinion the 3.13 version of it is not as good as the 3.12 version because I think the 6 link is a little bit weird (I miss the double curse forstbolt) and the damage is way less than in the 3.12 version. I dont want to critisize your work in any form, I just hope that your next version is cooler (at least for me ;) ). Keep on the great work.

PS: Sorry for the bad english