[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

Ok so im sitting at "alot" of core items and somehow this league i feel like the build is weak or broken. The HOP guardians die instant on a "classic" t16 map, i hardly get 4 alive (no enchant for 5 yet), for survival its not as good as leagues before in my experience ( i did play this build i think 3-4 times and it was awesome, swapped to others later as i just "maxed" this one out ). I remember owning delirum league same for metamorph and now i can hardly do it. I dont know if they made some changes the last 2-3 leagues (or this 1, i skipped poe for a year). Anyone feeling the same or i have some mistake in the build / items im not aware of ?

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riniah wrote:

I'm trying to decide which Skin of the Lords to use, I have Iron Reflexes and also one with Resolute Technique.

Anyone have any thoughts which is best?

Neither do anything for the build nor break it, so whichever is fine.

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MrEasyMode wrote:

Ok so im sitting at "alot" of core items and somehow this league i feel like the build is weak or broken. The HOP guardians die instant on a "classic" t16 map, i hardly get 4 alive (no enchant for 5 yet), for survival its not as good as leagues before in my experience ( i did play this build i think 3-4 times and it was awesome, swapped to others later as i just "maxed" this one out ). I remember owning delirum league same for metamorph and now i can hardly do it. I dont know if they made some changes the last 2-3 leagues (or this 1, i skipped poe for a year). Anyone feeling the same or i have some mistake in the build / items im not aware of ?

Welcome back! :)

A few leagues back, they reduced the amount of overall armour you get from most sources, but also reduced the amount of armour required to reach a given amount of physical damage reduction, as well as nerfed Memory Vault to the ground; as a result, we have much less armour by default, but this is compensated by the fact that you can now automate flasks (use "gain 3 charges when hit by an enemy" prefix + enchant "used when charges reach full", which can be crafted at the crafting bench for 5 instilling orbs and 5 glassblower's bauble). Overall, we have slightly more armour now with flasks than we had before, and much more physical damage reduction, so this ended up not nerfing the defence, but make sure you have automated your flasks.

Other than that, I don't really know. Check the PoB carefully, that's the best advice I can get. I haven't played the build myself in a few leagues, but I've heard from people building it that it was just fine. As for the sentinels dying, they're squishy, so it's to be expected - that's why you should cyclone as much as possible. If you do that, you should have 4/5 up versus rares and bosses (which is when it matters, spiders carry the clear easily anyway).

Thank You for the reply, i am missing the shield (obvious reasons) so im wondering if the is any cheaper upgrade i can get. Still not gonna lie, im missing the max block and im not sure i can get it without the shield. Same story about the lvl, im only 91 and im not sure what should i get now as a passive skill tree, gems, small cluser, endurance charge or what ( i think im only missing endurance, 2x gems watchers + the minion dmg rare, small cluster) other passives i think i have all added correctly. I just added the enchant for basalk and granite flasks so this should help. I will try to snipe the helmet + lvl 4 empower. I would love to "minmax" this build but im not sure "what is possible" with it this league.

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MrEasyMode wrote:

Thank You for the reply, i am missing the shield (obvious reasons) so im wondering if the is any cheaper upgrade i can get. Still not gonna lie, im missing the max block and im not sure i can get it without the shield. Same story about the lvl, im only 91 and im not sure what should i get now as a passive skill tree, gems, small cluser, endurance charge or what ( i think im only missing endurance, 2x gems watchers + the minion dmg rare, small cluster) other passives i think i have all added correctly. I just added the enchant for basalk and granite flasks so this should help. I will try to snipe the helmet + lvl 4 empower. I would love to "minmax" this build but im not sure "what is possible" with it this league.

I was wondering the same. I have everything except Empower level 4 and Aegis Aurora. Just missing the shield. This is my 4th league in a row playing this build and I absolutely love it!

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Vatinas wrote:

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riniah wrote:

but this is compensated by the fact that you can now automate flasks (use "gain 3 charges when hit by an enemy" prefix + enchant "used when charges reach full", which can be crafted at the crafting bench for 5 instilling orbs and 5 glassblower's bauble).

Do you mean Orbs of Alteration for getting the "gain # charges when hit ..." ? Glassblower's orbs only improve the quality afaik.

On a related note - I've only been able to get +2 charges to roll so far - is there something else needed to get to the +3 or more charges - such as a flask at a certain ilvl or is it just completely random and I just need to keep throwing Alterations at it till I get +3 or higher regardless of flask ilvl ?

This is still a great build, in standard at least. I don't play uber end game, it holds no interest, so it's perfect for rolling t16's and a few other pieces of content I'm interested in. Thanks for maintaining it !

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FerociteGaming wrote:

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MrEasyMode wrote:

Thank You for the reply, i am missing the shield (obvious reasons) so im wondering if the is any cheaper upgrade i can get. Still not gonna lie, im missing the max block and im not sure i can get it without the shield. Same story about the lvl, im only 91 and im not sure what should i get now as a passive skill tree, gems, small cluser, endurance charge or what ( i think im only missing endurance, 2x gems watchers + the minion dmg rare, small cluster) other passives i think i have all added correctly. I just added the enchant for basalk and granite flasks so this should help. I will try to snipe the helmet + lvl 4 empower. I would love to "minmax" this build but im not sure "what is possible" with it this league.

I was wondering the same. I have everything except Empower level 4 and Aegis Aurora. Just missing the shield. This is my 4th league in a row playing this build and I absolutely love it!

I guess a shaper spirit shield with ES on block might work (an armour/ES shield is less useful without Aegis).

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Vatinas wrote:

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riniah wrote:

I'm trying to decide which Skin of the Lords to use, I have Iron Reflexes and also one with Resolute Technique.

Anyone have any thoughts which is best?

Would Resolute technique be somewhat useful for HOP uptime against bosses, or do we get enough accuracy anyway so the 100% hit chance won't matter?

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alpo789 wrote:

Would Resolute technique be somewhat useful for HOP uptime against bosses, or do we get enough accuracy anyway so the 100% hit chance won't matter?

I'm at 88% chance to hit with the harvest weapon enchant.
I decided to get a Skin of the Lords with Wicked Ward to save 2 points.

whats the farthest youve bbeen able to take this build into end game?like have u been able to run all uber bosses, wave 30 simu, or 100% delis etc or what are we talkin?

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Morpheend wrote:

whats the farthest youve bbeen able to take this build into end game?like have u been able to run all uber bosses, wave 30 simu, or 100% delis etc or what are we talkin?

Like I say in the guide, this build isn't great at handling uber bosses because it's hard to get your damage above 6 or 7 million, which makes the fights last long and DoT degens tend to stack up in fights like uber Shaper or uber Uber Elder. But I only tried each boss a few times (apart from Uber Shaper which I killed), so I don't know the fights well, and someone more knowledgeable and skilled than me could probably do it.

As for simulacrum, I did wave 30, but didn't get a lot of rewards past waves 25-26.

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BowWizard wrote:

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Vatinas wrote:

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riniah wrote:

but this is compensated by the fact that you can now automate flasks (use "gain 3 charges when hit by an enemy" prefix + enchant "used when charges reach full", which can be crafted at the crafting bench for 5 instilling orbs and 5 glassblower's bauble).

Do you mean Orbs of Alteration for getting the "gain # charges when hit ..." ? Glassblower's orbs only improve the quality afaik.

On a related note - I've only been able to get +2 charges to roll so far - is there something else needed to get to the +3 or more charges - such as a flask at a certain ilvl or is it just completely random and I just need to keep throwing Alterations at it till I get +3 or higher regardless of flask ilvl ?

This is still a great build, in standard at least. I don't play uber end game, it holds no interest, so it's perfect for rolling t16's and a few other pieces of content I'm interested in. Thanks for maintaining it !

Needs lvl 80+ utility flasks.

Scour the flask
glassblower it to 20 qual
Roll +3 charges when hit (prefix) and whatever suffix you're after (or bench craft one of the unveiled ones)
Use crafting bench to apply "used when charges reach full" for cost of 5 instilling + 5 glassblower