**GGG Balancing Ascendancy classes for PvP is a MUST before release !

"

lapiz wrote:

Personally I can't wait for the revelation of the next ascendancy classes.

Also please dont disable them for pvp. They will make so many more things viable. Haunt's illustration of the amount viable builds just seems completely off to me..



Some random off-topic crap:

The math is still kinda wrong with the pen gems by the way.. Usually all casters have the 5% pen from the tree AND the best casters have a +1 chest for another percent. That's a total of 44% penetration. So with the templar ascension you will deal 100 opposed to the 44+25=69 damage you did before. Thats 45% more damage for crits. Your crit chance is very low as a caster though and a lot of the time you will hit like a wet noodle if you aren't using a penetration gem. In conclusion, you wont be dealing 100% more damage.

Haunt, your LLD char is very very far from being maxed out at the moment. There are some builds worth 100s of ex in the current meta.

Also saying that life based casters aren't viable is quite a statement.. Leg kaoms + staff with firestorm would most likely be at least equally good to their lowlife counterparts. Life potions with potion nodes and stuff like bloodgrip are op af. With a char like that you could also use exactly the gems you wanted as opposed to crit builds which struggle to fit everything. The new "more spell damage" gem will be op for that too.

Also, Mulla's char is mostly an EA char.. He will do just fine

(only 1 in existence)

Hai Lapriz. :3

"

Personally I can't wait for the revelation of the next ascendancy classes.

Also please dont disable them for pvp. They will make so many more things viable. Haunt's illustration of the amount viable builds just seems completely off to me..

I'am pretty sure you vision of ascendancy will change once you realize the builds you couldnt initially beat have become even more OP, this will happen with a lot of current builds which will become unviable...

How is making certain builds overpowered increasing the amount of builds being viable ? I'am talking about top tier plays, if a certain build gets destroyed against the majority of top tiers receiving these buffs then it becomes unviable. To work in pair with the ignore res added notable you either have to roll a templar, which is pretty limited to a caster but it has to be crit to make use of it and be competitive, how exactly is a life caster templar going to compete against a crit based templar caster if he cannot use the notable.

If you want to use far shot you have to roll a ranger, which is pretty limited to using puncture, LA and EA which will all become even stronger and people are already struggling against these.

Now the shadow has more options, you can play a caster with it, you can play a crit dagger and even crit swords. A caster using these notables obviously has to be low life or ci, the notables are good and grants 100% more crit chance against full/low life. In order to play a shadow caster you have to be crit or the notables are completely wasted, there again a non-crit caster shadow is not going to be viable against a shadow crit caster, the damage difference is wayyy too big and would suffer more against any build.

On the other side you can play a crit dagger build with the shadow, which infact is the only build that will trully revive with this, it was nerfed to the abyss and would probably become viable again with such notables.

Now on what's viable and what isnt you can clearly see that there are limitations as to what you can roll with each ascendancy class, they are pretty strict and you are obligated to play certain classes if you want to even use them. VERY few builds will flourish and become viable, there are much more already viable builds that will only become stronger. I would actually like if you could state me certain type of builds that will flourish out of the abyss with those classes, i cant find any except for crit dagger.

Some random off-topic crap:

"

Your crit chance is very low as a caster though and a lot of the time you will hit like a wet noodle if you aren't using a penetration gem. In conclusion, you wont be dealing 100% more damage.

My crit chance currently is 56%, with crit strikes gem it comes over 65% if i remember ( i'm not ig atm ). Ontop of that i simply take more crit chance on tree to easily achieve over 75%, it wasnt so mandatory to stack it all before but now with that notable it totally is. I will also be using romira's banquet so everytime it doesn't crit i will gain a power charge, paired with assasin's mark i really dont see how i'am not going to be able to practically always land a critical.

"

Haunt, your LLD char is very very far from being maxed out at the moment. There are some builds worth 100s of ex in the current meta.

You are right it is not maxed out, but i'am almost certain that is enough to be considered ''Almost'' maxed out, still my point is i aquired those items in less than a few months which to me are quite good enough to be competitive, compared to my HLD which took years.

"

Also saying that life based casters aren't viable is quite a statement.. Leg kaoms + staff with firestorm would most likely be at least equally good to their lowlife counterparts. Life potions with potion nodes and stuff like bloodgrip are op af. With a char like that you could also use exactly the gems you wanted as opposed to crit builds which struggle to fit everything. The new "more spell damage" gem will be op for that too.

Just no a leg+staff firestormer would never be as strong as a low life firestormer, the damage gap is huge since by going life you cant even stack any crit properly and you wont even be able to make use of the upcoming op notables. The shield user will have block, approximately the same es pool as his life with proper gear, more damage, can make use of tempest shield, will have PA 30% more, can use the shield stats for 65+ spell, 105+ crit chance. The es user will have much more mana due to stacking int and this will be able to spam much more. As far as i know i'am not struggling to fit any caster gem in my shav settup, perhaps i can almost play with every gem that works in pair with any spell available, in fact i tried every settup with possibly all of them over time. Now pair these two in a match up and the low life caster will have a muuuuuch higher advantage which again leads to life caster being unviable due to being uncompetitive against its counterpart.

I can see it not being so much of an issue reguarding LLD, but for HLD nothing that is upcoming is helping the current meta at all and i have enough experience to realize it before everything is even released.

Since disabling the whole thing might not be the optimal way to deal with such things i want to say that i ATLEAST hope that this will wake up GGG into takings actions to properly tune things so the damage dealt from actual builds is kept at a certain degree.

There essentially needs to be supervision from GGG since it's practically impossible for things to balance on its own with such implementations, some skills and builds will become overpowered and they will need toning down for sure, while others might need buffs in order to stay competitive.

We will quickly see it happening and i would like if people would start to post constructive threads and feedbacks so GGG can take actions into helping us get things balanced after ascendancy.

"

lapiz wrote:

Personally I can't wait for the revelation of the next ascendancy classes.

Also please dont disable them for pvp. They will make so many more things viable. Haunt's illustration of the amount viable builds just seems completely off to me..



Some random off-topic crap:

The math is still kinda wrong with the pen gems by the way.. Usually all casters have the 5% pen from the tree AND the best casters have a +1 chest for another percent. That's a total of 44% penetration. So with the templar ascension you will deal 100 opposed to the 44+25=69 damage you did before. Thats 45% more damage for crits. Your crit chance is very low as a caster though and a lot of the time you will hit like a wet noodle if you aren't using a penetration gem. In conclusion, you wont be dealing 100% more damage.

Haunt, your LLD char is very very far from being maxed out at the moment. There are some builds worth 100s of ex in the current meta.

Also saying that life based casters aren't viable is quite a statement.. Leg kaoms + staff with firestorm would most likely be at least equally good to their lowlife counterparts. Life potions with potion nodes and stuff like bloodgrip are op af. With a char like that you could also use exactly the gems you wanted as opposed to crit builds which struggle to fit everything. The new "more spell damage" gem will be op for that too.

Also, Mulla's char is mostly an EA char.. He will do just fine

Can confirm the lifebased thing! I've got a scion that does just that, and even without 4 empower, 21 storm and good jewels I do very good. Also done some calculations and I'll most probably do the build as a templar too and it'll turn out (much?) stronger

After a,most a year of staling meta, The only way i see this happening now is if we all collect money and give it to ggg to pay someone to do the fixes and tweaking. Otherwise it will never happen as they don't have the ressources neither the will to do that.

Who would be keen to give GGG money to adjust pvp and how much would you spend ? Now we are talking real possibilities. You have to remember that this game is free to play, GGG own you nothing. If you stop playing they won't loose money except if you are a big MTX spender or supporter.

"

IceDeal wrote:

After a,most a year of staling meta, The only way i see this happening now is if we all collect money and give it to ggg to pay someone to do the fixes and tweaking. Otherwise it will never happen as they don't have the ressources neither the will to do that.

Who would be keen to give GGG money to adjust pvp and how much would you spend ? Now we are talking real possibilities. You have to remember that this game is free to play, GGG own you nothing. If you stop playing they won't loose money except if you are a big MTX spender or supporter.

Didn't we all in some way contribute to giving GGG funds so they can go on with game developement ?

I have seen pvp players who have big supporter packs, MTX'es included and myself have spent some cash on MTX. I think that alone and the fact that every player or part of the different aspect of the game community deserves to not be neglected, it is part of their game afterall and you dont implement something to not take care of it.

On another note i would probably consider buying a supporter pack once i feel the moment is right, who knows maybe if GGG actually did it's job by balancing every aspect of their game properly it would encourage many other players to do the same, i just havent justified any big supporter pack payment yet, atleast not in the current state of pvp.

"

hauntworld1 wrote:

Players like mullaxul with his 2 hander is going to go into the abyss and i'am certain that non crit melees will be dying and non viable at all into pvp if we dont do anything about it.

Even if 2h sucked worse then it does now, even after sword lost its BCR passives and even after I sold all my legacy/mirror worthy gear and spec'd into my current 100Ex build...I'm not going anywhere. When my character sucks soooooo much ass It's completely worthless versus everyone I'll still use it because I'm a stubborn mofo and 2h'r for life.


I'm with Lapiz and others that say let Ascendancy's rock. They are without a doubt overtuned for even PvM purposes but damn near everything is. Which is why I laugh when I see buffs to "under" performing PvM skills and builds etc.. It's the easiest shit in the world already. If nothing else I like the idea of having actual "classes" to some degree. It will add a layer of uniqueness and create some cool builds. I'm just waiting for a decent Marauder one to be released, right now It's pretty much crap ha. Lapiz is right too, I'm pretty much a hybrid mix of many things..I always played that way so I never get swept away with the meta changes.

"

MullaXul wrote:

"

hauntworld1 wrote:

Players like mullaxul with his 2 hander is going to go into the abyss and i'am certain that non crit melees will be dying and non viable at all into pvp if we dont do anything about it.

Even if 2h sucked worse then it does now, even after sword lost its BCR passives and even after I sold all my legacy/mirror worthy gear and spec'd into my current 100Ex build...I'm not going anywhere. When my character sucks soooooo much ass It's completely worthless versus everyone I'll still use it because I'm a stubborn mofo and 2h'r for life.

And what are your thoughs on the actual topic, kinda confused at how no one is trying to actually provide informations as i think it is a proper timing to hang more data to GGG so they can balance things out after ascendancy.

Currently there are veeeery few builds that actually deal damage. EA, some casters and bowers basically. With the introduction of ascension a lot of things will also deal similar damage. Damage that is large enough to kill.

From the top of my head lets take a spell trapper as an example. Trappers will be really good with the new passives. Either with the "double" crit or the one that triggers all traps in the vicinity of the one that was triggered.

And we haven't even seen most of the classes yet. Should be fun.