The 7 main problems with HLD and how to fix them

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1. Fix ALL Shotgunning (EA/LA/Trap). Fix Level bugs with EA explosions (higher ground etc...)
2. Frostwall no longer works with CWDT/Totem. Manual cast only. Duration reduced.
3. Block pen on tree for all weapon types.
4. Change BCR gem to white.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Only for 2h weapon types, remove sword exclusive cluster and make it universal 2h ONLY at the same ratios

4. No...balance will take a giant shit. If the gem was white no one would have to use a green socket i.e a mostly useless socket 90% of the time. They will have higher damage output/crit potential then they already do...thus buffing caster/bow/crit melee unnecessarily and passively nerfing 2h further.


As far as my Oro's build, there's reasons why it's so strong and reasons why I have multiple set ups depending on match ups. I won't tell anyone what I did/nor gear I'm using but your average Oro's build will generally blow far more then 10-15% worse to a mirrored set up. If I used legacy Kaom's and/or any mirrored gear at all it'd be better for sure but I don't. Right now the build is just smart but gear wise anyone can make it for under 100Ex in any league.

Legacy crit gear, still impacts builds even if its smaller then legacy Kaom's and how it transforms 2h builds completely. That extra multiplier is the difference between 1shotting people and potentially 2shotting them instead. While Kaom's grants on average 1500more life then new Kaom's and provides free tree travel to acrobatics + anything else you want on the best side of the tree for PvP ..Ranger.

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Mullaxul wrote: Legacy crit gear, still impacts builds even if its smaller then legacy Kaom's and how it transforms 2h builds completely. That extra multiplier is the difference between 1shotting people and potentially 2shotting them instead.

Not sure which items you are talking about but if i check my case, the only small legacy crit item that i wear is far from making 2 shot to 1 shot gap.



30% more than a regular non legacy crit ammy, doesn't really make any difference in term of kill speed besides adding a bit more crit dps.

Legacy crit items are very limited, depends on build.

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hauntworld1 wrote:

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Mullaxul wrote: Legacy crit gear, still impacts builds even if its smaller then legacy Kaom's and how it transforms 2h builds completely. That extra multiplier is the difference between 1shotting people and potentially 2shotting them instead.

Not sure which items you are talking about but if i check my case, the only small legacy crit item that i wear is far from making 2 shot to 1 shot gap.

30% more than a regular non legacy crit ammy, doesn't really make any difference in term of kill speed besides adding a bit more crit dps.

Legacy crit items are very limited, depends on build.

That's a pretty retarded reply honestly. More multiplier = more damage each time you crit = more damage toward the player = more 1shots, 1.250 shots, 1.5 shots, 2shots etc..etc.. when they would potentially take more hits to kill. You can downplay crit, downplay caster but legacy crit gear adds enough damage potential to change the outcome of a match. Most people have legacy es gear,crit gear,kaoms,full mirrored out slots of no longer obtainable stats/modifiers. Even if the guy in legacy gear could hit you 1x then spit on you to kill you, while the guy in available current gear had to hit you 1x and spit on you twice to win...it's an advantage.

With a new amulet and nothing else 150% + 35% multiplier for example you do 2x your damage or 202% where with 0 you do 1.5x your damage.

Old, you are doing 2.5x your damage or 255% give or take.


Legacy gear in general is stupid. It forces new players or poor players to suffer in leagues other then perm league. They have little chance of owning most of the legacy gear/mirrored gear because the prices are bull shit. So they are forced to run redundant content every few months, quit the game all together or deal with players in perm league who have 2x the gear they do because it's so far beyond reach you'd have to have 0 life or rmt to obtain it. This is a large part in why PvP is dead. The stupidity of balance is the other reason. People don't want to spend all day waiting for a match, get that match only to see its someone they can't even go near as melee because they'll die instantly from a guy who's practically afk. Or enter with their current best available gear'd character to fight someone in old legacy gear who is by default geared 2x better.

Someone mentioned "legacy" Diablo2 gear, not even comparable. The impact it had on the game versus the gear you could get on a day to day basis was almost non existent.

I'm not talking poverty players. I'm talking if someone started this game today, got the best available non mirrored/non legacy gear they could grinding and no lifing for weeks. On most builds it's not going to cut it and there is always a better legacy/legacy mirrored piece that would edge his character, the more slots you fill with this gear the easier it is to win matches. You want PvP to be a gear check? Because right now that's all it is, a gear check and a crit dice roll.

Not even to be a dick but seriously you can keep a straight face and tell me this type of gear isn't often times carrying otherwise bad players? A little game knowledge, 0 life or a credit card and anyone can pick up a ranged build with crit and beat most people just holding attack in their direction. If none of this was true, you yourself wouldn't be crit, wouldn't be ranged and wouldn't even have a legacy crit multiplier amulet now would you?

I had CI melee before, maybe you dont know. i was not joining to US PvP scene. I was using Lightning Strike, i was doing very well to big portion of builds in current pvp scene... except... EA.

EA forced me to change my build direction to ranged, Lightning Arrow.

AB level 1 + cwdt + GMP's + increased duration Chill, therefore 30% less attack speed, shit loads of movement speed reduction is way more imbalanced than Crit multi amulets if you ask me.

I see no one complaining about that, why? cause 95% of pvp feedback is because of jealousy, because of injured pride of an immature guy etc.

Im not including you to this statement of mine Mulla, while you are including me as 'skilless geared crit ranger' aka noob. :)

People want to have key to open every door in the game, people want to be able to overcome any difficulty with what they have in their hands. This is typical 'poor people' attitude.

Seriously, gear plays a lot smaller role than most people here claim. Also, the difference between legacy and non legacy stuff really isnt that big except for kaom's chest. Kaom's is the only legacy item that can actually make a difference.

Critical damage certainly isnt an issue. I'm not sure if people who criticize critical damage have ever actually tried to make a crit build and play against an opponent who has a setup that counters crits? Have you noticed you would need to use 10 different support gems to actually take advantage of all the properties of crits?

Aegis isn't really an issue either. Have you ever made an aegis build that also has decent chaos resist AND damage AND doesn't rely on Rumi? You probably haven't because it is impossible. Have you ever done a CI aegis char that also deals damage? You probably haven't because it is close to impossible.

Non-critical physical AND elemental damage are good in pvp. You can use almost all the support gems you actually want to use. You aren't wasting any damage potential really, whereas with crit builds you waste a lot of potential by only having 5 support gems. 4 support gems in reality because you need BCR against 90% of your opponents.

The real problem of hld pvp still lies in the skill EA. Firestorm and whispering ice are very close to being a problematic thing but there are a few things that counter them fairly well. When designing a HLD char, you always come to the same conclusion. No matter the concept of the build, you most likely cant do anything against the best EAs. Everything else in this game can be played around and countered to an extent with any build with some minor changes and item swaps. The balance actually seems really good if you take out EA out of the equation.

As a fun example, my 150% crit multi, 100% elemental, non-mirror, non-legacy, no mines/traps archer beats almost everything out there. With LA or without.

Critical damage in every aspect of pvp since last content is not an issue. There are close to no spells being able to 1 shot anymore besides molten shell or flameblast, and blast is pretty terrible for pvp. It's atleast 2-3 shot nowadays with every spell you use minimum and that is considering you have close to maxed out gear with crit.

Crit was problem when dagger were so dominant before 2.0, being able to 1 shot everything all around with minimum gear reqs. I have to say that LA shotgun/crit is pretty much a one shot and that's probably the only thing reguarding crit that surfaces another problem, because 1 shots are an issue.

Regarding legacy items in the current meta they are fine, the only main build enabling legacy still remains kaom's heart, like lapiz said. Shav legacy doesn't do much, legacy amulets only add 30% multi which is not outrageously high, comparable to a node you could take on the tree for being higher level. There are very few legacy crit items that a crit build can use at once and none of them are high enough to attain 1 shots anymore.

To respond to mulla as of why i'am using crit on my caster is for multiple simple reasons.
Non-crit casters generally do lower damage in pvp, with certain spells you have no choice to be pure flat ( incinerate ). But incase you use another spell viable for crit usage, there is simply no reason as of why you wouldn't stack crit if you have the possibility to afford high-end flat elemental damage gear with crit mods. It adds a lot of damage but it is wealth hungry, you need time played/lots of currency to make a proper crit build. Crit chance needs to be stacked enough for crit multi to land the damage as often as possible, and this mechanic is far less op with 1 shots being very rare nowadays.

PvP in action-rpg games will always be a gearcheck, same thing goes for D2 as it was very present even if the outplay competition was there. If you didn't have GG gear you lose a good amount of chances to win agains't someone that is godly geared, its very simple mechanics in such games. The higher your stats are, the more chances you have to win paired with clicking/reflexes/pots/gear-swaps and outplaying.

Regarding EA i also think it's still OP and i dont need to adress this subject, it has been discussed a million times already.

And yet no a single person talk about the elephant in the room and why EA and LA shotgun are so strong : Secondary Damages.

Remove secondary damages and I bet that the number of EA abusers will drop by at least 75% (they will probably move to puncture mines build). Beeing hard countered by block and dodge will force them to invest skill points in damages resulting in less life and more vulnerability to melee.

But that's something who can't be fixed by just changing a value (wich is GGG idea about how to balance pvp) so live with it.

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IceDeal wrote:

And yet no a single person talk about the elephant in the room and why EA and LA shotgun are so strong : Secondary Damages.

Remove secondary damages and I bet that the number of EA abusers will drop by at least 75% (they will probably move to puncture mines build). Beeing hard countered by block and dodge will force them to invest skill points in damages resulting in less life and more vulnerability to melee.

But that's something who can't be fixed by just changing a value (wich is GGG idea about how to balance pvp) so live with it.

The primary damage dealt by EA and LA are horrible. You might as well disable those skills in PvP if you want to remove the secondary damage that they deal. I would prefer they remove the ability for any skill to shotgun and buff the damage of the effected skills to make up for the nerf.

With current Crit builds in pvp,

*You cant have more than 65% crit chance. After accuracy checks, it gets below 50% If you try to have more than 65%, you would lose a lot survivability or non crit damage which is not good in pvp. I have 55% crit chance.

*You cant pass 6k life with melee, you cant pass 5k life with ranged. Doing that would make you lose a lot dps, and the core strength of your build. Tempest shield, simply one shots me vs Ek /firestormers when i cant breach block. (4.9k life)

*If you cant crit when you got initiated, you are dead. Simple.

*You cant stack any defences at all. with RT all your tree is about stacking defense, with crit all your tree is about stacking offence. When you try to balance & offence of a crit build, RT gets stronger. All or nothing. Even though i had 11k life, 2H cycloner would wreck me. you cant namelock a cycloner with ranged attack, it would cause you miss. Instead of all this, i get 5k life, but my mines 1-2 shots everyone. So i can survive. You are forced to be edgy with your dps. Crit builds are not forgiving when you do a mistake therefor.

*whirling blades outplays every kind of zone controlling you can do. (unless you are EA)

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Dethklok wrote:

The primary damage dealt by EA and LA are horrible. You might as well disable those skills in PvP if you want to remove the secondary damage that they deal. I would prefer they remove the ability for any skill to shotgun and buff the damage of the effected skills to make up for the nerf.

So instead of building those damages with the tree you just abuse the fact that it :

1/ Completly ignore 2 of the defense systeme of the game, gain another gem slot by not using BCR (unlike pretty much every other build) and the ability to focus more on defenses on stuff/skills by totally ignoring the accurency stats.

2/ Can be abused by creating a forced unavoidable aoe shotgun with Ice wall/arena walls getting a free more multiplier outside of the skill gem setup.


I wouldn't mind that they removed the damage restriction on EA/LA if you had to use BCR and build accurency like everyone else. Secondary damages are retarted and I would bet all my gear that if it was removed, not a single person would stick with this playstyle.