Current state of hld

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MullaXul wrote:

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I agree with most of your points. But I think you have to take gears into account. If a person can one shot u using puncture without bleeding, then this guy must have insane gears, probably all mirrored. I use puncture because I have glyph but I wouldn't even consider it if I just have a regular 5L bow. Without high phys dmg gear, puncture is crap even if u put in a trap/mine. That's why we have LLD, where build budgets are much more similar. In HLD it's hard to balance because there will be ppl with 1000ex+ full mirrored gears. And they deserve to be strong.

Now EA is an exception because it's super cheap and op.

Crit puncture even with a 15-20EX 6L Lioneye's or Chin sol will fuck a player up. Trust me I've played all of these builds in "budget" gear seeing just how powerful they are in a real world situation. It's very viable, you may not insta kill a better player before bleed even runs its course but its enough to beat anyone. 500+ crit multipliers and the basic concept of how the skill works + being ranged + having many MORE multiplier supports is just insult to injury when you're talking mirrored bows. Bow's shouldn't even have 500+ base damage imo but that's another topic that isn't worth debating if crit multiplier was tweaked.

Mines and traps are just augmented heavily by the above. Plus have their own MORE damage multipliers ramping damage through the roof and can be used in conjunction with your main skill. Mines and traps shouldn't be doing the damage they do unless you're dedicated to them and its your main attack...then its warranted because you have cooldowns, spacing and an actual strategy required to win most of the time. To be able to just slap down 1hit kill invisible mines/traps while you spray people for 1-2hits yourself is an issue. I know how to deal with any match up in this game and standing there sweeping the floor so you can freely move in on someone while they attack you for ridiculous amounts of damage is not balanced. Puncture and cursing is also the fastest way to destroy someones entire flask set up in 1 round or less leaving them almost entirely useless for the rest of the rounds.

It should play like this..

You have a bow, you have puncture or any other attack...you're ranged and keeping your spacing and firing at the target doing respectable damage. You throw out a few traps/mines that DO NOT have the power to 1hit kill someone with 9k+++ life/es, they are instead truly there for utility and to keep the other player from being reckless and just face smashing into you over and over and over til they win.

Currently it works like this...

"repeat first few lines"...you throw out a few traps/mines, other guy is either stupid and just lets it roll and gets 1shot free. Or other guy tries to sweep the floor while getting shot at, subsequently losing almost all of their flasks and/or dying. While clearing the floor, the bow user re traps/re mines and process repeats til they fuck up and you close the distance. You then hit them a few times...since they are 2h and have 7k+life and mega regen you likely don't kill them on your first or even 2nd attempt...by now you're starved out and basically a sitting duck til you lose.

If you're losing with a 300+dps bow in this game, you're ass cheeks...all there is to it.

Puncture is really not that strong as you described especially after the nerf. IDK why but I rarely saw another player playing bow puncture in pvp during the past 2 months except maybe 1 or 2 using puncture trap/mines. It could be that not many ppl playing pvp atm i guess. But if you check the perm standard pvp leaderboard I'm probably the only puncture user in top 50. Also lioneye's and chinsol are really bad in pvp. Lioneye's attack speed is useless in pvp. Chinsol only works with trap/mine. Using just puncture with chinsol is suicide. You should keep in mind that most bowers do not have good defense against melee.

<wall of text>
TL;DR: GGG pls destroy any build except legacy phys 2h RT cyclone.

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EFBBBF wrote:

<wall of text>
TL;DR: GGG pls destroy any build except legacy phys 2h RT cyclone.

Spoiler

seems like I can post this tl;dr on each mulla's thread :D

I think ggg should give mulla's characters personal 250% more pvp dmg buff. just for great justice and 'balance'.

I Don t know what you talk about,

cyclone is dead nerfed now and what legacy phy mean anyway?

Also you forget that to gear good dps and survivability with 2h you need like 4 time more currency than let s say... a trapper or EA user.

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cyclone is dead nerfed now

2h cyclone got buff with adding cd to ic, it like 45% more dmg vs non armoured character.
+ optional hypotermia and conc effect. how is it dead?
I think even 60-70% PvP penalty wouldn't kill it.

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EFBBBF wrote:

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cyclone is dead nerfed now

2h cyclone got buff with adding cd to ic, it like 45% more dmg vs non armoured character.
+ optional hypotermia and conc effect. how is it dead?
I think even 60-70% PvP penalty wouldn't kill it.

Conc effect on cyclone is like Lol.
Every good players I know avoid it and use AOe instead.Doing 10k more dps and hitting the wind will not help you win.

If you nerf cyclone by 60& then nerf ea, trap and crit spell for like 200% please .

I never seen cyclone 1 hit but I seen spells,traps, 1 hit... so how much we nerf those then?

What is cd to ic?

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EFBBBF wrote:

<wall of text>
TL;DR: GGG pls destroy any build except legacy phys 2h RT cyclone.

Spoiler

seems like I can post this tl;dr on each mulla's thread :D

I think ggg should give mulla's characters personal 250% more pvp dmg buff. just for great justice and 'balance'.

Lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. Everything pointed by Mulla are broken mecanism that need to get fixed.

Tempest Shield and Cyclone were broken before and have been fixed, it's time for EA, Crit and Traps/mine now.

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EFBBBF wrote:

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cyclone is dead nerfed now

2h cyclone got buff with adding cd to ic, it like 45% more dmg vs non armoured character.
+ optional hypotermia and conc effect. how is it dead?
I think even 60-70% PvP penalty wouldn't kill it.

Lol this killed all your further arguement

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broken mecanism that need to get fixed.

How is crit broken mechanic? its just a source of damage increase, you can't complain about crit dmg balance while playing on standard vs someone using legacy crit multiplier items.

overlapped EA explosion is the only broken mechanic we can talk about, but why are you suggesting global reduce EA damage?

Trap concept isn't broken, if you are too lazy to use aoe or chaining skill to detrap area, well...

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EFBBBF wrote:

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broken mecanism that need to get fixed.

How is crit broken mechanic? its just a source of damage increase, you can't complain about crit dmg balance while playing on standard vs someone using legacy crit multiplier items.

overlapped EA explosion is the only broken mechanic we can talk about, but why are you suggesting global reduce EA damage?

Trap concept isn't broken, if you are too lazy to use aoe or chaining skill to detrap area, well...

Firstly the fact I have used real world examples with common gear + crit and proven it > anything regardless. Bino's dagger, Chin Sol, Lioneye's glare, Pledge of hands etc..etc. You can easily achieve 400-600% multipliers without legacy gear. Do you know what 600% damage multiplier even means? I can 1-2hit people with a 4Ex value Bino's dagger while still having 5-6k hp,acro/phase acro,block. With any of the above bows or even a rare I can have 7-9k hp with new Kaoms + heavy regen + knock back + great mobility, endless options versus any match up in the game. Examples are plentiful and only get stronger as you add CI, melee on full or low life PA into the equation....even with attainable non mirrored non legacy gear. The damage is skewed too far in the favor of crit users.

Only benefit I see to multipliers this high is to keep really budget built characters viable against even the best geared ones. Though obviously you disagree and don't see how that's even possible. It doesn't take away from the fact its the common denominator in balance issues.

As for traps, you're obviously blind to why its a problem. The fact de-trapping the area takes time and often an offhand swap is 100% fine. I don't think anyone with a clue will argue sweeping mines/traps is bad, its a really cool aspect in PvP that adds depth to an other wise face tankers paradise of huur duur button smashing and standing there. The problem lies as I said and everyone agrees with, when you're sweeping the floor avoiding 1 shots while getting 1-2shot from the bow user themselves. Even on a lesser scenario, say the guy is only using a mega suckage non mirrored bow (because apparently if its not mirrored its crap). You can play the trap/mine game....plus your own main attack and abuse this til the other player has 0 flasks...0 and god forbid they entered without a healthy ratio of bleed and warding flasks in the first place. You'll either be perma bleeding or perma cursed in short time.

The trap/mine and sweeping issues aren't solely a bow thing, casters have access to this option as well and its just as strong. Only difference is they can't puncture you and play the flask meta abuse game as hard.

Again if you're invested into traps/mines as your only attack i.e Hege, the damage is justified.

Honestly if you still need your hand held and can't figure out such obvious outcomes yourself. Or how viable things are because of crit multiplier and a ridiculous amount of synergy with MORE gems and utility gems that also benefit from MORE gems and crit...then I don't know what to say.

PvP right now is in a good spot, very little needs to be fixed. Physical and elemental builds are on equal footing. Casters are less brain dead, certain mechanics have been reworked and are less abusive. Everything's pretty viable right now except totems,summoners but that will likely never change. Cyclone isn't garbage and anyone claiming they get or have gotten 1 shot from Cyclone needs to check if they were wearing gear or even invested points into the tree first because that's bull shit. 100 little hits, very fast ya...1 shot, no. Learn how to move, you have 2 legs and other mobility options. I know PoE has a community of face tanker newbs that never want to let go of attack or move but jeez.

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lolozori wrote:

Also you forget that to gear good dps and survivability with 2h you need like 4 time more currency than let s say... a trapper or EA user.

this is fun... so basically you are saying that since his char is more expensive then other less expensive build need a nerf? you chose to play that build, you know it's expensive. and if you go for that build having crap items then you cant pretend other cheaper builds to be paired with ur level.