[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)

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Serleth wrote:

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Roughly a 29.4% increase at this point, which compensates for the loss of Drillneck already (we would've needed approximately a 15% base damage increase to compensate for the proposed Drillneck changes).
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In case you have not seen this post from Rory on reddit:

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Our latest changes haven't made it to Beta yet, Drillneck will be "Arrows deal 50% increased damage to targets they Pierce" Hopefully we can get this on soon! Existing versions of the item will also be changed to work this way.

Source

It sounds like it might play a little weird(Aim behind the boss to proc the pierce), but could still be useful.

And thanks for all the number updates!

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Serleth wrote:

Also, update on CA change in Beta.

2.6 Level 15 Gem: 230.9 base chaos damage over time.
3.0 Level 15 Gem: 298.8 base chaos damage over time.

Roughly a 29.4% increase at this point, which compensates for the loss of Drillneck already (we would've needed approximately a 15% base damage increase to compensate for the proposed Drillneck changes).

I'll confirm with a level 20 gem as well but it seems like this skill got a pretty nice buff for 3.0.

We'll lose the QoL of Pierce dropping more clouds for us, but it shouldn't be TOO impactful. More importantly, indicators seem to be it will be a little bit better versus tankier mobs, though it's worth noting beta players are reporting boss life pools in white and yellow maps to now rival those of red maps, so boss killing potential for MF purposes is quite possibly lower. I have not been to maps in Beta so far, so I cannot confirm.

I think the more important thing to note is that the skill will be a lot better to level with come 3.0, and we might be able to completely forgo spell leveling at that point. I didn't want to test it immediately in case it didn't work out with no backup gear due to the fresh reset, but I'll roll again after I hit gem level 20 and play it like a new league and actually try leveling with it from the go.

I did start leveling CA from the start. It has been a pretty slow process. Fortunately I am old and slow so I haven't minded it too much. I have done all content up to the Harvest and haven't done lab yet. I have been able to kill everything (slowly) except a totem in a Haku mission. I messed around getting there and ran out of time by a couple seconds. I am using a wither totem. A couple other things to help have been a bladefall totem with poison (now decay) and culling strike. I also have blind linked with split arrow and my flame golem.

Right now I have the proj nodes to sentinel, fury bolts cluster, just ballistic mastery and the method to madness cluster. I have a 5l +1 bow. Ca level 11, conc level 7, rapid decay level 4, void manu level 10 and slower proj level 4. No q on any gems. With flame golem my current chaos damage per second is 1009.

One other thing. Knowing drillneck was probably going to be unusable, I tested an alternative in legacy. I used a Maloney's Nightfall which gives and additional 40-60% damage increase to blinded enemies. I linked blind to my CoH set up and with a stibnite flask had pretty good success. Unfortunately the Maloney's in 3.0 have different verbiage. Extra damage is based on hit or ailments which I believe the cloud does neither.

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The reason I prefer projectile spells like Magma orb is because it dovetails nicely with the proj dmg nodes the build takes anyway in end-game, whereas something like Firestorm only benefits from the spell damage around Scion and later on Shadow elemental damage (neither of which we keep). Either way, you'll find various different setups pretty comfortable.

I couldn't get used to magma orb's weird..bounce.

Ooh, turns out spark and frostbolt are projectiles, so I'll try those, probably spark leveling.

EDIT: And I just forgot that magma orb would work with LM-Projectiles, okay, going to try THAT then!

So I can confirm two things.

a) The lack of pierce is more noticeable than I remember it being.
b) The 3.0 CA feels about as good in a +1 5L as the 2.6 CA does in a +2 5L.

Again, haven't leveled with it from scratch in the Beta, but indicators seem to be you can make the switch earlier.

Currently level 59 in a +1 5L, level 15 gem.

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A few things I forgot to consider initially with the proposed changes to Drillneck is:

a) Deadeye now grants 2 targets pierced, so we do retain some QoL
b) Drillneck had ~50ish life. You can now get a rare quiver with 90+ life, which amounts to roughly an additional 120 life at the end of the build.
c) Also with the rare quiver, you can get tri-res on a penetrating quiver, totalling 3 targets pierced AND much easier res balance which:
d) Means you can drop resistances off jewels and get extra damage.

All in all, build got buffed for 3.0. Pending more investigation into end-game gem levels.

I'm not sure I'll go all out and get Empower and a +3 bow here in Beta, but I'll go for a level 20 gem and that should give us an accurate idea if the buff to the base damage continues, flattens out or reverses a bit to match 2.6.

Level 17 2.6 CA Base DoT: 328.6
Level 17 3.0 Ca Base DoT: 437.5
Percentage Increase: 33.14%


Last update for the day

Level 18 2.6 CA Base DoT: 380.8
Level 18 3.0 CA Base DoT: 527.9
Percentage Increase: 38.6%


In other words, at this pace, an unmodified (no +bow, no Empower) 3.0 Level 20 CA gem will have better base dps than a 2.6 level 25 (level 20 gem in a +3 bow, Empower 2).


I don't recall the exact value differences between the tree changes but off the top of my head, despite the Drillneck loss, we gain I think 6% increased damage.

Throw that in conjunction with the ability to basically forgo resistances on jewels by getting a 30/30/30 tri-res quiver, and gearing everything else well, we can gain an additional 60-70%-ish damage off jewels than we would otherwise have, putting our rough increase in damage off the tree to a total of 80% or so.

Update:

Level 19 2.6 CA Base DoT: 464.1
Level 19 3.0 CA Base DoT: 636
Percentage Increase: 37.03%

The increase percentage has started to reverse. :/

Level 20 2.6 CA Base DoT: 550.3
Level 20 3.0 CA Base DoT: 765
Percentage Increase: 39%

Nevermind, we're good.

That's probably as far as I'm pushing the gem in Beta but I'll make sure at 3.0 launch to go to one of my old CA chars and check out a min-maxed build (Level 21 gem in a +3 Bow, Empower 4 = level 28 gem) and see what the difference is.

In case someone jumps on the wiki and changes it out super fast, I'm just going to make a note of 21+ gem level values here:

In the Beta I've leveled with a 3L +1 Bow at lvl 9 and upgrade to a 4L +1 bow around level 30 or so (vendor 4L bow + alt spam ftw). Currently level 48 with this build. Current tree looks something like this (http://poeurl.com/bmqr). Gear wise, other than the blue 4L +1 Bow everything else I have is garbage.

I tend to take my time leveling CA and just stick with using it from the moment I get it (even in the past). I can say it isn't the most blazing fast build ever, but it definitely feels better leveling than it did before. Anecdotal I know, but unfortunately that is the best I can do at the moment.

Thanks for all the detailed math stuff. Strongly leaning towards going with this out of the gate when 3.0 drops.

Hey, thanks for trying it out! Anecdotal is still good, especially given that you started with a 3L (something I never would've done). Good to know.

How did you find bosses while leveling with it that early?

Glad to help out. I am simulating SSF in the Beta because trading is awkward without POE trade, and I was curious how well the build would work that way. Short answer there is just fine even as the starter character in the Beta "league." Getting the 3L and 4L bows were a matter of camping the vendors each time I leveled. Had enough currency both times one popped to alt spam to get +1 bow gems.

Bosses felt much better than in the past. It is still very much a "stick and move" kind of boss fight, but it didn't take long enough to be bothersome. I haven't clocked it but I would say it was definitely less than a minute for each boss, and probably closer to the 30 second range.

I've also prioritize damage with the passive tree progression so far (2.3K cloud DPS at level 49 with the 4L+1. That means I am a bit squishy if I try to face tank stuff, but that kinda comes with the territory of having garbage gear and prioritizing damage. After finishing the Growth and Decay cluster, I am planning to work my way down to Golem's Blood.

Current CA Links: CA 14 (13+1) > Void Magic > Rapid Decay > Conc Eff - No quality on anyting.

Did a couple Vaal side bosses. They dropped in ~15 seconds. Just did Act Six boss at the top of the prison, including all the RP it took 1 minute 40 seconds. Had 3 frenzy charges and the boss vulnerability cursed basically the whole fight.

Tree: http://poeurl.com/bmr7

Character Level: 50

CA 4L +1 Bow: CA 14 (13+1) > Void Magic 13 > Rapid Decay 9 > Conc Eff 10
Tooltip: 2.7K Cloud DPS
Path of Builing Cloud Tooltip (no Wither Totem): 3.6K

Curse: Frenzy 1 > Vuln 1 > CoH 6 > GMP 6

Aura: Clarity 10 > Purity of Elements

Golem: Fire Golem 8


Edit: And now I realize that I forgot to pick up and level Wither/Spell Totem/Faster Casting. That would speed things up (5% dps increase).

Path of Building Tooltip with Wither Totem: 3.8K

Nice. Thanks for the update. I was going to roll a fresh character and see how that panned out but it's hard for me to be motivated without a challenge league up. =)

Glad to help out. I plan to try and push through to at least lower tier maps for funsies. I'll let you know how it goes though doesn't seem like you need much data past level 64. I am not feeling super motivated myself, but I am basically treating Beta like a 1m league.