[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)
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Hello! I like this build and the way you explain everything. But looking a bit at the tree i've got a question. May be somebody asked it before, hard to say with 490+ pages :P. Why do we take projectile damage from ranger start? We could take instead physical and chaos damage from the shadow start, which shall give us more damage (and place one point in evasion and life for ranger start).
Last edited by bars92 on Oct 12, 2016, 9:52:33 AM
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" Mathematically there is zero difference in damage scaling for the chaos cloud between the 5 damage nodes taken at the ranger start versus the 5 damage nodes at the shadow start. This build does not scale phys damage. Physical damage only scales the initial hit, and has no effect on the cloud. Chaos and Projectile damage scale the cloud with the same effectiveness, so you are really looking at 56% damage and 4% increased Attack Speed versus 56% damage and 14 Life. |
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" Oh Serlet in enraged mod. that i never seen in this thread and i read all words in this thread. :-) new experience shortly we hit the 500 page. Perhaps i make 20 quotes to hit as first the 500 page :-) but i think not. perhaps then is serleth enraged 2.0 and he didnd answer my questions. that would be verry sad For the essence problem I was the weekend in munich and had the last two days to wait on my lvl 8 guy to test. And :-((( it didn work anymore. Thats verry sad. But the ex are worth it to test. and for the benefit yesterday drop 2 ex for me in exvacation map. so its ok |
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" Sorry for all those "noob" questions. :) But the gem is saying "Gain (30-49)% of your Physical Damage as Extra Chaos Damage". Isn't physical damage increasing also the projectile damage? Can't understand how that works, different sources explain it different. I mean the bow has physical damage stats, it fires a projectile, which has the damage of the bow, isn't it? If we increase the bow damage (physical damage), isn't the projectile damage increasing aswell? How, then, projectile damage is exactly scaled on the cloud? What am i missing? | |
" No problem at all, answering questions is fun. So Caustic Arrow has two different effects every time you attack with the skill. There is the hit and the cloud. The hit is when the arrow strikes a target, it is a single instance of damage which uses the physical damage of your bow and the Chaos conversion of the skill. The damage of the hit can be scaled with Projectile, Physical, Chaos, Gem Levels (increases the phys converted), and Damage modifiers. The secondary effect of Caustic Arrow is the cloud. A cloud is generated when the arrow strikes a target or reaches it's terminus point. Despite being called a cloud, it is really a ground effect, and like other ground effects it cannot stack (with other CA clouds). The damage of the cloud can be scaled with Projectile, Chaos, Gem Levels (increases the flat damage over time), Damage over Time, Area, and Damage modifiers. The reason Physical Damage does not scale the cloud is because there is no Physical element to the Damage over Time. The reason Projectile Damage does scale the cloud is because the cloud is delivered via a projectile. Hopefully that helps answer the questions you had. The rest of this might be out of scope, so I'll just throw it in a spoiler.
Spoiler
There are two different ways you can build for CA. Either as an attack build and scale the hit, or as a damage over time build and scale the cloud.
The attack version. This could is done by scaling Physical, Chaos and Projectile damage mostly. It also requires a solid weapon with good physical damage rolls. In order to hit multiple targets you would likely run LMP/GMP (with a loss to damage), or a Reach with a pseudo fixed damage output (with Legacy bows comparable to very well rolled rares), or the Hydra's Bow might be a suitable option(speculation). The tree would need a rework for the good phys nodes near Shadow and Ranger, and the build should try to retain the same amount of Chaos and Projectile nodes. The attack version would also use a different link set up. Empower and Concentrated Effect would likely not be used in favor of Physical Projectile Damage, and Poison. Or LMP/GMP if not using Reach. Or Crit Strikes if going for a crit version. The attack version would play like any other attack bow build, and would have a little extra damage in the form of the clouds left behind, which also have some extra scaling from the overlapping modifiers. The Damage over Time version. This build, and most (if not all) Caustic Arrow builds on the forum, are the Damage over Time versions. By scaling damage over time you have access to one more damage modifier compared to the attack version, and your weapon can be self crafted at max rolls for damage pretty cheaply. Concentrated effect has one of the highest 'More' multipliers found on support gems, and Area Damage and DoT provide more flexibility in crafting or buying jewels. Generally speaking, between the two ways to use Caustic Arrow this one is easier to gear and scale. After writing this, I am kinda tempted to try out an Attack version of Caustic Arrow. Might be kinda rubbish, but could be fun to do in down time. Would use the Assassin Reach of the Council as a starting point. |
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Hey guys!
Im pretty sure this had been here before but i cant find it on the last 8 pages so here it is: It should be possible to easily roll a +3 bow with the Shrieking essence of Dread (+2 bow gems), or am I missing something ? I spammed around 30 Essences on my 6 link but it didnt happen at all. Assuming all Prefixes has the same chance to roll it should be a chance of 1/10 (with ilvl < 83). Do I just have bad luck or is it impossible to get a +3 with essences ? | |
" Thank you! Now i got it :). What was hard to understand is the projectile damage part. Nowhere is stated that the cloud damage directly scales with projectile damage, and was really unclear to me. Yes you made it completely clear. Also the Attack build seems interesting. Would like to see it if you ever do it. Last edited by bars92 on Oct 12, 2016, 1:55:33 PM
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" First time it's been asked, actually. "Easily" is a misconception. The essences are essentially like alcs/chaos, in that while they provide you with a guaranteed affix, the rest of the affixes will roll normally. As for the chance to roll itself, I'm no mathematician (Hank can weigh in for accuracy here, perhaps?) but my rough understanding of the way this functions it that it rolls from every possible affix AND tier when determining what prefix lands. So, on an ilvl 83 bow * 11 flat phys tiers * 10 pure phys % tiers * 8 hybrid phys % tiers * 1 +1 all gems tier * 2 +x bow gems tiers * 3 life leech tiers * 1 mana leech tier * 6 WED tiers * 11 cold damage tiers * 11 lit damage tiers * 11 fire damage tiers * 1 chaos damage tier for JUST the prefixes Suffixes add an additional 89 tiers, for a total of 165 possible tiers to roll whenever you use an alc (76 from prefixes) Your essence only removes two possible rolls (+1 and +2 bow gems), leaving 163 possible affixes. Here's where the "I'm not a mathematician" part factors in, because my guess would be the chance for +1 bow gems in the other two prefix slots to roll would be 1/163, or 0.613% (including all other possible affixes, because it's possible for the essence to roll +2 bow gems, then ENTIRELY suffixes without filling in the prefix slots). In other words (presuming I'm even slightly accurate here), you should expect to use more around 165ish essences to get it. So, it's far removed from a 10% chance. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018. Last edited by Serleth on Oct 12, 2016, 2:03:41 PM
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" Yeah - pretty much this I'd think. Probably the remaining affixes are rolled in accordance with their preassigned likelihood weights - see poe.db for the likelihood of a particular mod to roll - and +1 to gems, has a low weighting (0.43%). And as you point out there's also the possibility that all three prefixes might not roll giving you just one bite at the cherry (not sure if it's possible that just 1 prefix would roll in which case you're immediately out of luck). Working along the lines that all 3 prefixes roll you could use the +1 to gems weighting in order to figure out how many essences you'd expect to spend to get a +3 bow. You would need to then adjust this downward somehow because all 3 prefixes don't roll at times and it's not clear how to do this since I don't know the math behind the decision to roll another prefix or not. Or you could just assume that only 2 prefixes roll (the +2 to bow gems and one other) and work out another estimate. The actual number of expected essences you'd spend would like somewhere between these two values. |
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So is there a good way to craft a +3 bow using essences? Or just go with the 1st method of the guide?
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