Ball Lightning

This skill scales greatly with many sorts of gems. However, thats why it has low base dmg, so DONT USE it, unless you have 6L.

While Arc deals nice dmg right from start and 4L arc-fast cast-echo-l pen makes a totally working combo, ball lightning needs at least BL-fast cast-echo-l pen-SLOW PROJ-INC AOE. It is the last two gems that skyrocket its dps, stacking many orbs dpsing a single target. You aso need all AoE radius that can get from tree (witch/scion/templar groups). My calculation show that you can reach 80k NON-CRIT dps just stacking orbs on a target. The best way would be to use new staff that makes 7L : BL-fact cast-add lightning dmg-l pen-slow proj-inc aoe-ECHO 30 lvl. Added lighning is crucial to provide enough lightning damage to cause shocks, and buffs dps nicely too (+50%).

It is no wonder both BL and new echo staff came in a same patch cuz they are designed for each other.

TLDR: if you dont have 6/7-links stick with Arc, if you do - go nuts on Ball Lightning.

"

elwindakos wrote:

"

Kagari wrote:

Prolif helps but why would we knockback stuff to avoid them to reach us when arc can do the same by simply killing the targets.

I'm tryinbg the gem each time i get a level on it and each time i go back to arc.

Cause Survivability in this game is half the game.You know,half the builds in there build around that.And no,arc cant kill anything without you getting dmged,this spell can

@TanakeahEvery thing you will point out,flameblast can do better.What is your point?

Here we are arguing if it is a good or bad skill.

See,i selectively spoken about a combination i used.You could drop faster casting which is an overkill to the combo i spoke and add empower or anything else.And be honest with yourself,Ball lighting has so many more support gems helping it,such as faster projectiles,slower projectiles,increase aoe,lesser multiple,greater multiple in addition to any other support Arc can get.

As it stands nopw arc is useless when comparing to flameblast.Are you going to compare apples and oranges?

Again.Here we are talking about if it is great or not and its possible uses.Asking for a buff for an already beefed up spell is wrong.

Never said the skill was bad, but sadly not enough to compete with others.

Among the support gems you listed, faster proj, LMP and GMP do nothing but nerf your overall damage output. Multiplying projectile won't do anything but decrease the damage of the wires without increasing the number of hits. Casting speed reach its limit fast also as once you reach the 200ms threshold nothing more can be done.

Talking about survivability, i prefer destroying the target faster with arc than making the fight last longer but knocking back the target tbh. Leech isn't a viable pro to the gem unless we try with the LoH for spell claw but i'm not even sure 200ms tick is enough to compete with incinerate.

"

elwindakos wrote:

"

Kagari wrote:

Prolif helps but why would we knockback stuff to avoid them to reach us when arc can do the same by simply killing the targets.

I'm tryinbg the gem each time i get a level on it and each time i go back to arc.

Cause Survivability in this game is half the game.You know,half the builds in there build around that.And no,arc cant kill anything without you getting dmged,this spell can

@TanakeahEvery thing you will point out,flameblast can do better.What is your point?

Here we are arguing if it is a good or bad skill.

See,i selectively spoken about a combination i used.You could drop faster casting which is an overkill to the combo i spoke and add empower or anything else.And be honest with yourself,Ball lighting has so many more support gems helping it,such as faster projectiles,slower projectiles,increase aoe,lesser multiple,greater multiple in addition to any other support Arc can get.

As it stands nopw arc is useless when comparing to flameblast.Are you going to compare apples and oranges?

Again.Here we are talking about if it is great or not and its possible uses.Asking for a buff for an already beefed up spell is wrong.

But Arc isn't useless compared to Flameblast because FB requires you to stand still, channel, and even with its moderately large radius you have to either have something to slow mob movement speed down, or pray they don't move out of FB's target area. Arc doesn't have any of those issues, and while FB can certainly output a lot of damage and burn enemies, so can Arc and it can shock, which means...even more damage. However, the biggest flaw of you bringing this up is that you are indeed falling into the trap of 'comparing apples to oranges' as you said later in your post.

We are talking about and comparing BL to Arc because both of them are Lightning skills, and as such we have to compare them on the merits of what Lightning based spells bring to the table. The biggest things being Shock chance, synergy with other support gems, and their overall base damage, all of which are a big thing for Lightning skills. Even if you added Empower to your setup, that isn't going to do you much good because Ball Lightning's base damage is still very low as well as its damage effectiveness, which is only 30% compared to Arc's 50%. That's not a small difference, and it hurts BL even more because of its already low base damage, which of course affects shock duration and just raw damage in general.

LMP/GMP are not good supports for Ball Lightning at all because while they do allow BL to shoot out more projectiles, those projectiles cannot and will not 'shotgun', and you're still taking the rather hefty damage penalties those gems bring to the table. Even if using LMP and all three of those BLs cross over a single target, it will never be hit more than once every 200ms because they are all part of the same cast. The only way that I can see making BL work is if you use Slower Projectiles and massively increase the ball's AOE reach, which means that still compared to Arc it requires a much larger investment amount for what Arc can do.

So yes, compared to Arc, BL is lacking from the looks of it and it very well might need a boost to get it more appealing. It's not a bad, useless skill by any means, but in terms of effectiveness compared to similar element skills...not as good. Again, we're comparing apples to apples here, not apples to oranges like you were, please keep it between the Lightning skills, which is what we have been doing.

"

elwindakos wrote:

Are we talking about the same spell here?

In a 6l,this is utterly,tottaly broken.Broken,that it does so much that many spell cant.Ill explain My thoughts after i post the setup

Ball lighting-lighting penetration-faster casting-echo-knockback-ele prolif.

Ok so,you have monsters,get pushed back,also known as get hit more,proliferate shock to masses with some aoe build,even though it wont get Aoe modifiers.

Melle monsters cant hit you.Ranged monsters wont reach the range distance.Prolif will shock stack anything in its path guaranteed.The more hits you will get the best leech you will have.

It pierces,it spreads out,and in an aoe build one cast is enough to cover your aoe needs,so lesser multiple or greater is there to hurt its dps,rather than help it.

Have you seriously tried the spell this way?I repeat it is the single most broken spell,that provides good dps and insane survivability.

Dont know what people wanted more from this skill.............

Edit:I swear to god,if you buff this spell,it would be the most utterly broken thing in this game period

Edit:did i mention it is broken?Cause it is.

I haven't even tried making a build around this skill myself, I'm curious to see this in action. Would you be able to make a video of it?

"

elwindakos wrote:

Are we talking about the same spell here?

In a 6l,this is utterly,tottaly broken.Broken,that it does so much that many spell cant.Ill explain My thoughts after i post the setup

Ball lighting-lighting penetration-faster casting-echo-knockback-ele prolif.

Ok so,you have monsters,get pushed back,also known as get hit more,proliferate shock to masses with some aoe build,even though it wont get Aoe modifiers.

Melle monsters cant hit you.Ranged monsters wont reach the range distance.Prolif will shock stack anything in its path guaranteed.The more hits you will get the best leech you will have.

It pierces,it spreads out,and in an aoe build one cast is enough to cover your aoe needs,so lesser multiple or greater is there to hurt its dps,rather than help it.

Have you seriously tried the spell this way?I repeat it is the single most broken spell,that provides good dps and insane survivability.

Dont know what people wanted more from this skill.............

Edit:I swear to god,if you buff this spell,it would be the most utterly broken thing in this game period

Edit:did i mention it is broken?Cause it is.

I tried with knockback was quite good.
I use a 4 link though without faster cast and echo and the knockback proc quite often but the damage is a joke. Non-linked arc does more damage than 3link ball of lightning (not counting knockback tho it contribute to some damage because more procs during the knockback effect)

"

Kagari wrote:

"

elwindakos wrote:

"

Kagari wrote:

Prolif helps but why would we knockback stuff to avoid them to reach us when arc can do the same by simply killing the targets.

I'm tryinbg the gem each time i get a level on it and each time i go back to arc.

Cause Survivability in this game is half the game.You know,half the builds in there build around that.And no,arc cant kill anything without you getting dmged,this spell can

@TanakeahEvery thing you will point out,flameblast can do better.What is your point?

Here we are arguing if it is a good or bad skill.

See,i selectively spoken about a combination i used.You could drop faster casting which is an overkill to the combo i spoke and add empower or anything else.And be honest with yourself,Ball lighting has so many more support gems helping it,such as faster projectiles,slower projectiles,increase aoe,lesser multiple,greater multiple in addition to any other support Arc can get.

As it stands nopw arc is useless when comparing to flameblast.Are you going to compare apples and oranges?

Again.Here we are talking about if it is great or not and its possible uses.Asking for a buff for an already beefed up spell is wrong.

Never said the skill was bad, but sadly not enough to compete with others.

Among the support gems you listed, faster proj, LMP and GMP do nothing but nerf your overall damage output. Multiplying projectile won't do anything but decrease the damage of the wires without increasing the number of hits. Casting speed reach its limit fast also as once you reach the 200ms threshold nothing more can be done.

Talking about survivability, i prefer destroying the target faster with arc than making the fight last longer but knocking back the target tbh. Leech isn't a viable pro to the gem unless we try with the LoH for spell claw but i'm not even sure 200ms tick is enough to compete with incinerate.

I was the first one that said that this gems will cut your dps.Yet,did u and tanakeah disprove em when i said that BL has more supports than Arc which you so praise?

And about lighting,what about spark?Why arent you comparing it to it?Selectivity.Its more closer to spark rather than arc.

You might think BL is not good as arc.And you see the tooltip rather than its potential on field.

One could argue that Arc kills things faster.I say again,if enemys come close,can they hit you?Cause with Bl they cant.More over,all the testings i done was without any significant spell modifier(20% spell dmg increase only,but max aoe 170%).If i were to build this,i would have put also points to knockback distance for more hillarity.

No,ele prolif is no negligable,and in an aoe build you can with this skill have constantly shock stacked enemies constantly.Wheteher its 20% vs 50%,you neglet the part that on many hits of balls that 20% overcomes the 50% effectiveness.The only thing that saves arc its is high base dmg,in which to get mroe targets one would need chain,while when things going wild in screen bl can hit infinite numbers of mobs more efficiently.

What kind of mentality is this anyway?If it doesnt kill at once,its shitty?In a party it can proliferate infinetely,in solo it can kill masses like nothing,while also protecting you like you used an incinerate and knockback(which Bl seems to be more effective than that).Not to mention its distance.

Someone already uploaded a vid yesterday with loh and bl lvl8.Today my bl reached 12 in the little timespan i ahd available and i can safely say its broken as with echo and conductivity can kill elite monsters of docks with one cast.I say again,in abuild with only 20% spell dmg increase,go figure...

As for Fb argument,also invalid since with echo and fast cast you dont even have to stand,pressing the button for a mere second and moving can get 3 stacks of it instantly,making it even more broken than it was before.

@Elwin

Several of the supports you listed are not going to be doing BL any favors such as you listing LMP/GMP which, while they will increase the range at which BL can hit things, it still is going to be cutting into the already low damage. None of the extra projectiles from the same cast will be able to 'shotgun' any enemies they cross over with, so all it ends up doing is lowering damage and costing you more mana to use BL and it's not doing much else. As far as comparing it to Arc and only Arc, we are doing so because Arc is quite potent and Ball Lightning will be compared to it not just by us, but by others who will be deciding whether to use BL over Arc.

Damage is very important especially when it comes to shock stacking and its duration, but that is not the only thing we're looking at, so please do not say we are looking at DPS only. It's only one part of the equation, and we're quite aware of that. In that vein, Kagari brings up a valid point that if you can kill something before it gets to you then that simply follows the old saying of 'The best defense is a good offense', which is quite true. Knockback with BL sounds like it can work well, but I have to question what testing you've done with this. You've mentioned that you can kill elite packs in docks with one cast, ok...so...how does this work on endgame maps? Arc can absolutely obliterate stuff in docks as well, but so can Split Arrow, Lightning Arrow, and other things with the right supports. You are using that 'test' to say that the skill is broken, and that is something that I find a little questionable because docks is not a very good testing area for skills and determining whether they are 'broken' or not.

How will the knockback support and BL itself work in level 73+ maps with +75% Lightning Resist, Increased Monster Life, and things of that nature? Have you done any such testing so far? I am not trying to be snarky here, but I am genuinely asking you if you have done so, because like it or not, endgame maps are a big part of the game and where skills and their support are really put to the test to see just how effective they truly are. Also, again, please do not put words into my mouth, or anyone else's about how we are saying BL is 'shitty'. I have never once said that, and what I have said is that right now from what I have seen (the key point here), BL doesn't look like it will be performing that well and may need a boost to make it more effective. There's a big difference between the two and I do suggest you take a little extra time to calmly read and find those differences before spouting off at the mouth again...rein it in a little please.

Also, arc doesn't need a Chain support gem as by itself it can chain up to 6-7 times depending on how high you push the gem. Most mob groups don't go above 15 or so save for around shrines, which means that Arc has plenty of room to work with. Now, all of that said, again, BL doesn't appear to be as good as you are making it out to be, and it may very well not perform that good in the later stages of the game where such performance is crucial. If its advantages and disadvantages combined together can make it COMPARABLE to Arc within a reasonable amount, or if it offers enough different things that Arc cannot do, then that's fine. However, from my observations thus far and using the skill in higher level maps and comparing it to higher level Arc gems that I have...so far it's lackluster, which is why I said it may need to be buffed. Big difference than saying it's 'shitty'...just to reiterate that.

one not yet mentioned upside of BL is its interaction with this:


it ofc isnt anything 'amazing' but healing is solid and is scaled with the same stuff that scales its damage - aoe/cast speed/multi proj (for coverage)

btw:

BL vs ARC debate

im bit worried that noone seems to notice that while BL might be a bit 'not-as-strong' it is the Arc that seems to be TOO strong atm. when ggg finally buffed Arc then did not hold back and went full banana..

comparing almost-OP Arc to BL and saying that BL needs a buff.. isnt right in my opinion. why not compare it to other spells that are more or less 'in line' like firestorm, fireball, ice spear etc

Arc - esp its high end scalling with levels and that extra chain - currently should not be taken as a benchmark

"

sidtherat wrote:

one not yet mentioned upside of BL is its interaction with this:

it ofc isnt anything 'amazing' but healing is solid and is scaled with the same stuff that scales its damage - aoe/cast speed/multi proj (for coverage)

Multi proj won't help because of the cap of the 200ms per target. 1 ball is enough to hit a whole pack of mobs.

"

sidtherat wrote:

BL vs ARC debate

im bit worried that noone seems to notice that while BL might be a bit 'not-as-strong' it is the Arc that seems to be TOO strong atm. when ggg finally buffed Arc then did not hold back and went full banana..

comparing almost-OP Arc to BL and saying that BL needs a buff.. isnt right in my opinion. why not compare it to other spells that are more or less 'in line' like firestorm, fireball, ice spear etc

Arc - esp its high end scalling with levels and that extra chain - currently should not be taken as a benchmark

What are you babbling about arc is fine as it is at least for leveling, useless single target dps (imo) and great clearing capabilities.


I doubt arc is god sent in high end maps.