What's Being Kept from Ambush/Invasion? (Updated July 4)

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PitzerMike wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Their spawn rate will probably be reduced slightly, and we'll have to rebalance how Cartographers ones work in end-game Maps (currently they're incredibly effective at dropping higher maps - this is an experiment we're currently willing to let run its course).

Here's my feedback regarding the strongboxes:

Cartographers boxes are the only reason why my current Ambush character is the first one I havn't stopped playing at level ~80. All others I stopped playing at that point because i got tired of re-running low-level maps. I will only stay as long as I have the feeling I am able to progress on my own.

I agree their rolls could be limited to maybe +3 chest level and the additional items mod reduced too. But I think their spawn rate is fine - they're quite rare already. And it's not like you get those rolls for free.

I also love the other strongbox types and how they sometimes make me waste my currency - just having fun re-rolling them. Overall as a self-found player the strongboxes have helped balance out my currency pool immensely. They provide stuff that I normally don't find enough of (high-level maps, nice gems, fusings via the +socket mod and vendor recipes) by spending currency that I have too much of (transfuses, alts, augments, alchs ...)

Also may I suggest a vendor recipe that turns my excess skill gems into fusings?

+1

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gr00grams wrote:

I joined this game about a week or two into Domination.
I joined with a lot of friends.

They have all quit, not to return.

They had no issues with super low drops, difficulty, screwing up builds, having to trade, etc, none of it, but maps and how this content was done. I am also in agreement with them.

There is nothing in a game that makes people quit faster than how these maps are done. I don't care if we're supposed to trade for them, or whatever intent is there, it's wrong. It does not work, is not enjoyable, and was the number one reason everyone I know in RL no longer plays.

You do not bar your players from playing the game.

I get the economy, everything, the reasons, all of them, irrelevant. Player plays game, gets to end-game, no maps, done. I am the only one of my group that still plays, and all I do is farm Dominus at level 88. I will not fucking trade to play the game. I will quit just like all my friends did and move on to other games first.

It's the same with Atziri, and it's having the same effect. You get fed up, and quit. You do not gate content. You let players try, and fail hard sure, but let them fucking try. Always.

Now we have players using bloody metronomes to time the seconds instances take to load... none of this is good. None of it.

Strongboxes and what they do for maps is the best game addition I've seen TO this game, above all else in all my time here. I would care absolutely nothing if the strongboxes did nothing else than give players maps. This is the number one reason they are as someone else in this thread stated 'a home run'. They make players actually want to play. Funny thing, that.

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Kiri2k wrote:

You finally made end game viable for everyone and now you want to nerf cartographer? People is >having fun< on ambush, this is the only feedback Chris, listen to it, don't start to ruin again what you have done. We play 4 months leagues, it's a "short" time, then we just restart again, let people enjoy the game. I think you got enough critics about the whole atziri gated content, don't bring back again map system to that

This quote is exactly on point; people are having FUN. People are playing. People are playing because it's fun.

I was thinking the other day of re-installing Sacred 2, because it was the most FUN arpg I've ever played. Games are not jobs, even long-haul ARPG grindfests. They need to be FUN, too.

I've made on character to the 88. Others drop off around 50, and I am an extreme grinder. This is because I know there is absolutely piss all to do past Dominus in merc. Actually having maps to run constantly would change that. I might even make more characters, provided there is content to actually keep farming. I've probably wasted Dominus into the five-digit area by now, and still from Domination my highest map ever has been 71, Temple. That's from playing since Domination, 985 hours clocked, pretty much all one character. There's nothing I look forward to more, than Cartographers boxes.

+1

After 2 days of play, level 66 atm, I feel that some of the strongboxes simply gives too much:

-the abundance of scraps and whetstones. No more planning when to use them, just spam mindlessly all gear 20%. Also collecting superior flasks for glassblower recipe is fun but with current drops its just waste of inventory space <_> these were perfectly balanced, please, please don't bring these rates to core game...

-support gems and rare gems. Its been always an achievement to get certain gems and now that challenge is just completely gone. IMO those boxes should drop only skill gems with greater chance being quality instead.

And some too little:

- currency (boxes), this is what needs buffing not really others
- why no lootplosions on gear strongboxes?

Can't say much about maps, but if currency drops were much more generous every solo player could reach high-end maps over decent time with current core system. Having 22 66s before starting single map got me worried though :o

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666DalmatiaN wrote:

After 2 days of play, level 66 atm, I feel that some of the strongboxes simply gives too much:

-the abundance of scraps and whetstones. No more planning when to use them, just spam mindlessly all gear 20%. Also collecting superior flasks for glassblower recipe is fun but with current drops its just waste of inventory space <_> these were perfectly balanced, please, please don't bring these rates to core game...

-support gems and rare gems. Its been always an achievement to get certain gems and now that challenge is just completely gone. IMO those boxes should drop only skill gems with greater chance being quality instead.

And some too little:

- currency (boxes), this is what needs buffing not really others
- why no lootplosions on gear strongboxes?

Can't say much about maps, but if currency drops were much more generous every solo player could reach high-end maps over decent time with current core system. Having 22 66s before starting single map got me worried though :o

Whetsones I don't agree with. You need lots of them for the stone hammer recipe once you start mapping and the rest goes into the alch recipe so I'm constantly runnig low.

About scraps I kind of agree cause I have a number of those in my stash even though I use them for the alch recipe as well.

Invading packs, or "guest monsters," as you put it, are basically the key feature of Endless Ledge. Considering, I want nothing more than a permanent EL league, invading "guest" packs will be a good, albeit small, concession. The driving appeal of EL is overcoming resource scarcity in the lowest levels, when your character is its weakest and random pack composition can pose a significant challenge. This, I think, will be lost in later levels, so will not fully replace my wanting a permanent EL; however, the core game will definitely benefit from the variety this will provide--especially when the stars align and the invading pack lends something significant to already fully established and experienced encounters. It'll mix things up, and I predict sometimes in very interesting ways.

This is a very good change!

(I know, EL is slightly tangential, but it serves to outline why I appreciate this mechanic despite not having played Invasion).

Strongboxes are the single best content addition Path of Exile has seen. Ever. An abundance of low level crafting materials meant I was much more willing to spend my savings crafting items that would otherwise end up being frivolous investments in a few levels; I never quite worried about the cost, even if I didn't always get exactly what I wanted, because I knew that at some point, in some reasonable amount of time, I'd have another stockpile of orbs to use or save for future endeavors. That expectation, I think, is sorely missing from the entire crafting experience. Irregardless of whatever pitfalls strongboxes may pose given other players' habits, for me, they made crafting a more enjoyable experience. They by no means "fix" crafting, but they certainly did alleviate the soul crushing blow-back of failure.

The key is asserting a reasonable expectation of future abundance, balanced by randomly pairing low-to-high reward with low-to-high risk. This is a design philosophy otherwise absent in Path of Exile, until now, and I think could become a prevalent motivator for future design decisions.

The aforementioned resource scarcity works very well in certain parts of the game--races, event leagues, and certain portions of core content and progression--but can often serve as a detriment to the physical enjoyment of core content as a whole when expectations are consistently reinforced as unreasonable.

Emphasis is upon reconsidering exactly what is reasonable and what is unreasonable. I do believe some parts of Path of Exile have been unreasonable for far too long, meanwhile other reasonable but difficult parts have been made too easy (*cough* I can't provide feedback without interjecting how much I miss ye olden Fidelitas).

lol @ cart boxes

I wish I could get a roll like that.

But I've only seen ONE cart box IN A MAP since I started this character, and since I'm not filthy rich, I couldn't roll anything to amazing. Got a +4 map out of it, and that was about it. That was roughly one month ago, haven't seen one since.

In my opinion:

Reduce their power so ridiculous things like the quoted picture doesn't happen.

BUT increase their frequency so you see them every few maps or so, so rather than spike maping, you get a more consistent experience.

And for the love of all that is holy, PLEASE add a minimum cap to the map level dropped. My last Edit: 11 FUCKING MAPS have ALL been NO MAPS or a lower level map. Its stupid, I'm down to my last 2 maps above 72, and have edit: 3 72s left. I consider buying maps to be a cardinal sin, if a player has to trade just to experience the endgame, then the endgame is a failure.

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Chris wrote:

Unique Items
We generally do not add unique items from challenge leagues to the full pool when the league ends.

What's the reasoning behind this? It seems a shame to create all these interesting item with unique properties, only to throw them away every four months. It also contributes to the 'legacy items' issue, in a much more serious way than rebalanced uniques do. If you compare a player with legacy Kaom's Heart to one with a newly dropped Kaom's Heart, the first player has an advantage, but it's just a quantitative difference. But if you compare a player who has Voll's Devotion with one who doesn't, the first player is able to do things that would be essentially impossible for the second.

Edit: I found this blog post from a few months ago, making the same point:

http://buildcreatorsjournal.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/time-limited-unique-items-this-is-why.html

Chris,

If your keeping Carto boxes. You need to allow some map stacking of white maps with the same quality. You end up with a lot of them, and having a stash full of maps is cool and all, it's also annoying.

You need the low level ones to make chisels and for other characters and high level ones for running back to back.

Even stacking to 3-4 would be a great improvement.

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feyith wrote:

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PitzerMike wrote:

"

Chris wrote:

Their spawn rate will probably be reduced slightly, and we'll have to rebalance how Cartographers ones work in end-game Maps (currently they're incredibly effective at dropping higher maps - this is an experiment we're currently willing to let run its course).

Here's my feedback regarding the strongboxes:

Cartographers boxes are the only reason why my current Ambush character is the first one I havn't stopped playing at level ~80. All others I stopped playing at that point because i got tired of re-running low-level maps. I will only stay as long as I have the feeling I am able to progress on my own.

I agree their rolls could be limited to maybe +3 chest level and the additional items mod reduced too. But I think their spawn rate is fine - they're quite rare already. And it's not like you get those rolls for free.

I also love the other strongbox types and how they sometimes make me waste my currency - just having fun re-rolling them. Overall as a self-found player the strongboxes have helped balance out my currency pool immensely. They provide stuff that I normally don't find enough of (high-level maps, nice gems, fusings via the +socket mod and vendor recipes) by spending currency that I have too much of (transfuses, alts, augments, alchs ...)

Also may I suggest a vendor recipe that turns my excess skill gems into fusings?

+1

"

gr00grams wrote:

I joined this game about a week or two into Domination.
I joined with a lot of friends.

They have all quit, not to return.

They had no issues with super low drops, difficulty, screwing up builds, having to trade, etc, none of it, but maps and how this content was done. I am also in agreement with them.

There is nothing in a game that makes people quit faster than how these maps are done. I don't care if we're supposed to trade for them, or whatever intent is there, it's wrong. It does not work, is not enjoyable, and was the number one reason everyone I know in RL no longer plays.

You do not bar your players from playing the game.

I get the economy, everything, the reasons, all of them, irrelevant. Player plays game, gets to end-game, no maps, done. I am the only one of my group that still plays, and all I do is farm Dominus at level 88. I will not fucking trade to play the game. I will quit just like all my friends did and move on to other games first.

It's the same with Atziri, and it's having the same effect. You get fed up, and quit. You do not gate content. You let players try, and fail hard sure, but let them fucking try. Always.
is the best game addition I've seen TO this game, above all else in all my time here. I would care absolutely nothing if the strongboxes did nothing else than give players maps. Th
Now we have players using bloody metronomes to time the seconds instances take to load... none of this is good. None of it.

Strongboxes and what they do for maps is is the number one reason they are as someone else in this thread stated 'a home run'. They make players actually want to play. Funny thing, that.

"

Kiri2k wrote:

You finally made end game viable for everyone and now you want to nerf cartographer? People is >having fun< on ambush, this is the only feedback Chris, listen to it, don't start to ruin again what you have done. We play 4 months leagues, it's a "short" time, then we just restart again, let people enjoy the game. I think you got enough critics about the whole atziri gated content, don't bring back again map system to that

This quote is exactly on point; people are having FUN. People are playing. People are playing because it's fun.

I was thinking the other day of re-installing Sacred 2, because it was the most FUN arpg I've ever played. Games are not jobs, even long-haul ARPG grindfests. They need to be FUN, too.

I've made on character to the 88. Others drop off around 50, and I am an extreme grinder. This is because I know there is absolutely piss all to do past Dominus in merc. Actually having maps to run constantly would change that. I might even make more characters, provided there is content to actually keep farming. I've probably wasted Dominus into the five-digit area by now, and still from Domination my highest map ever has been 71, Temple. That's from playing since Domination, 985 hours clocked, pretty much all one character. There's nothing I look forward to more, than Cartographers boxes.

+1

All of this, I have largely been a hardcore player on this game but actually getting to enjoy end game maps in ambush is BY FAR the most fun I have had in this game and I have left a couple times already due to boredom but ambush is just too much fun to leave. As someone who is enjoying the new content don't change cartoboxes too much.

Is july when the new leagues start? I want to know when they do!