What's Being Kept from Ambush/Invasion? (Updated July 4)

Create some 5 day races, maybe one per month? test new ideas here.

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Chris wrote:

Their spawn rate will probably be reduced slightly, and we'll have to rebalance how Cartographers ones work in end-game Maps (currently they're incredibly effective at dropping higher maps - this is an experiment we're currently willing to let run its course).

Here's my feedback regarding the strongboxes:

Cartographers boxes are the only reason why my current Ambush character is the first one I havn't stopped playing at level ~80. All others I stopped playing at that point because i got tired of re-running low-level maps. I will only stay as long as I have the feeling I am able to progress on my own.

I agree their rolls could be limited to maybe +3 chest level and the additional items mod reduced too. But I think their spawn rate is fine - they're quite rare already. And it's not like you get those rolls for free.

I also love the other strongbox types and how they sometimes make me waste my currency - just having fun re-rolling them. Overall as a self-found player the strongboxes have helped balance out my currency pool immensely. They provide stuff that I normally don't find enough of (high-level maps, nice gems, fusings via the +socket mod and vendor recipes) by spending currency that I have too much of (transfuses, alts, augments, alchs ...)

Also may I suggest a vendor recipe that turns my excess skill gems into fusings?

I've been playing since closed beta and it's been the same every league. I start playing a character, get it up to around level 85, get some good gear, higher level maps never drop, quit. This usually took 2-3 weeks at most.

Sure there were some improvements and the max level of sustainable maps increased a little but I still hadn't seen a level 75+ map outside of trading. Until Ambush and strongboxes. It's been more than 3 weeks since it started and I still don't intend to stop playing because I really enjoy having high level maps to run and because I really like the strongboxes. They are fun and I feel they have a good risk to reward ratio (which can also be adjusted through currencies) compared to the rest of the game.

And now you want to nerf (let's stop the pretty lies we all know 'rebalance' means nerf in this case) them? I don't get it. Just like I didn't get the exile nerfs that made them go from nigh-impossible without a combination of good spec and good gear to dying from AoE before you could notice they are even there.

To be honest I would rather have the XP required to level in the 85-90 ranged increased rather than having maps not drop again. Or have the map drop rate weighted a LOT more towards quantity percentage rather than RNG.

Despite the lack of map progression in the previous leagues I still came back to the game. But after getting a taste of what it would be like if maps actually dropped and then have it taken away? I don't know, it might be too much for me.

I guess I should just enjoy the glory days while they last because it does indeed seem that no good thing lasts forever.

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gr00grams wrote:

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mazul wrote:

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Jihoko wrote:

I play on Invasion, we don't have any Cartographer's boxes, and I can sustain 77-78 maps just fine.

You are not supposed to be able to sustain 77-78 maps without trading. So either you are buying 77-78 maps, you are being very lucky or you have a different definition about what "sustain" means.

Edit: Just saw that you did write that you indeed buy 77-78 maps.

I joined this game about a week or two into Domination.
I joined with a lot of friends.

They have all quit, not to return.

They had no issues with super low drops, difficulty, screwing up builds, having to trade, etc, none of it, but maps and how this content was done. I am also in agreement with them.

There is nothing in a game that makes people quit faster than how these maps are done. I don't care if we're supposed to trade for them, or whatever intent is there, it's wrong. It does not work, is not enjoyable, and was the number one reason everyone I know in RL no longer plays.

You do not bar your players from playing the game.

I get the economy, everything, the reasons, all of them, irrelevant. Player plays game, gets to end-game, no maps, done. I am the only one of my group that still plays, and all I do is farm Dominus at level 88. I will not fucking trade to play the game. I will quit just like all my friends did and move on to other games first.

It's the same with Atziri, and it's having the same effect. You get fed up, and quit. You do not gate content. You let players try, and fail hard sure, but let them fucking try. Always.

Now we have players using bloody metronomes to time the seconds instances take to load... none of this is good. None of it.

Strongboxes and what they do for maps is the best game addition I've seen TO this game, above all else in all my time here. I would care absolutely nothing if the strongboxes did nothing else than give players maps. This is the number one reason they are as someone else in this thread stated 'a home run'. They make players actually want to play. Funny thing, that.

I've made on character to the 88. Others drop off around 50, and I am an extreme grinder. This is because I know there is absolutely piss all to do past Dominus in merc. Actually having maps to run constantly would change that. I might even make more characters, provided there is content to actually keep farming. I've probably wasted Dominus into the five-digit area by now, and still from Domination my highest map ever has been 71, Temple. That's from playing since Domination, 985 hours clocked, pretty much all one character. There's nothing I look forward to more, than Cartographers boxes.

I believe its hard for new players to understand how much more powerful the items are in the endgame maps, since the concept of Item Level is hidden
All they see is "ok this is level X" on the item.
You should really add so the itemlevel is shown too and explain its power on the affixes.
I mean, with newbie eyes the dominus fight would be the very best since it drops a megaton ofitems, while doing maps would be seen as boring because it drops much less and you have to run
the same map X times
Anyways with veteran eyes you will see that its worth spending X amounts of time with X amounts of luck to get to the highest tier of the maps, just because the gear is so much better

Please don't change the cartographer strongboxes! They don't spawn frequently enough to need nerfing. It's so satisfying to find one of these in a high level map, especially if you're having bad luck getting maps to drop. It helps sustain your own map pool so you don't have to resort to buying maps and then having less currency to roll them with. I've leveled farther on my Ambush character than I have in any other league because I've been able to run the higher maps. I prefer playing solo than having to rely on groups to progress my character.

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reboticon wrote:

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IceslayerVixxun wrote:

did anyone read my reply at all?
in short: either corrupt the boxes automatically or make them extremely expensive to reroll
keep everything else as it is

Yes we read it, we just didn't like it and were being polite.


Lowering +5 to +2 or +3 is a much better idea.

ya, my take on cart boxes, ya theyre too op. I love them, but yeah we cant go on like this forever. I would be in favour of not reducing their spawn rate at all, but rather reducing what they drop. Its the same deal, same amount of maps ending up in circulation but the more you balance it towards "the box is as rare as a mirror and drops 1000 maps" the less it can be enjoyed by people, its just even more extreme rng like eternal/exalt drops and people who have played for 500 hours and never had one etc. I feel like theres enough of that in the game already.

I can roll phys damage on a ring, but I cant roll 20-34 phys damage, + items and + levels need to be capped on them, like +2 levels and +2 items is generous enough.







My thoughts on Invasion bosses, Im sad to hear they wont be in the game, very sad to hear it. This is where I think it went wrong...

they were introduced into hardcore. When the Exiles were released into Anarchy it was a softcore league, and yeah people bitched mega hard about how much xp they were losing to some of the crazy ones etc, but we learned to love it because it was softcore. I think if Invasion bosses were introduced to softcore first then like exiles, they would have had big rebalances and then been added into the game. Also, exiles were not in EVERY zone, they were now and then. I feel like the reaction was more because of these differences in the implementation than the idea of the bosses themselves.

The other side is burst damage and appropriate difficulty. Id rather monsters were more relentless rather than always being able to kill you uber quick. The corrupted area in sarn, that boss has probably been nerfed to hell now but I was at a point where I would happily tank the general in a shipyard but was still apprehensive about going into that area.... thats a lvl61 area? I dunno, Im not against very hard monsters in the game, but I think there needs to be a look at the overall balance of game difficulty in this regard. Is a level 77 map that hard? Is is it just hard to find one for a lot of people? Id sooner play a 77 boss with my eyes closed than play against shock and horror with some of my builds, and thats 72.


but yeah, Im very sad to see invasion bosses not getting added in a reduced form like the exiles were.

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IceslayerVixxun wrote:

I believe its hard for new players to understand how much more powerful the items are in the endgame maps, since the concept of Item Level is hidden
All they see is "ok this is level X" on the item.
You should really add so the itemlevel is shown too and explain its power on the affixes.
I mean, with newbie eyes the dominus fight would be the very best since it drops a megaton ofitems, while doing maps would be seen as boring because it drops much less and you have to run
the same map X times
Anyways with veteran eyes you will see that its worth spending X amounts of time with X amounts of luck to get to the highest tier of the maps, just because the gear is so much better

yeah, they said they didnt want to add it to the text of the item because its confusing. I think just changing the lingo of it, item level might be confusing, so why not call it affix level? mod level? something less easily misunderstood. Add the text in area where the affixes are, at the top of the list in blue. I think the camels back is already well and truly broken on confusion and complexity in the game, I dont see that this would be 1 straw too many tbh.

Schwet.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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IceslayerVixxun wrote:

I believe its hard for new players to understand how much more powerful the items are in the endgame maps, since the concept of Item Level is hidden
All they see is "ok this is level X" on the item.
You should really add so the itemlevel is shown too and explain its power on the affixes.
I mean, with newbie eyes the dominus fight would be the very best since it drops a megaton ofitems, while doing maps would be seen as boring because it drops much less and you have to run
the same map X times
Anyways with veteran eyes you will see that its worth spending X amounts of time with X amounts of luck to get to the highest tier of the maps, just because the gear is so much better

yeah, they said they didnt want to add it to the text of the item because its confusing. I think just changing the lingo of it, item level might be confusing, so why not call it affix level? mod level? something less easily misunderstood. Add the text in area where the affixes are, at the top of the list in blue. I think the camels back is already well and truly broken on confusion and complexity in the game, I dont see that this would be 1 straw too many tbh.

Or "Affix Power", so that noone thinks it is any form of level.

It makes sense, an item with low affix power cannot roll high affix brackets.

invasion mobs might work better if they invaded after 50%+ all mobs in the current area have been killed or there was some way of telling which mob was invading from the start so at the very least you could choose not to fight them.