PM from Mark_GGG:
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Burn (and any damage over time) cannot possibly be affected by penetration. The concept doesn't work - penetration is about how you process being hit by the damage, and DoT never hits anything, it's a constant thing. Penetration is fundamentally about taking X amount of damage as a thing, at a particular point in time. I can't have any interaction with DoT, which is a rate you're constantly taking damage at for a duration.
Secondary damage (IB explosion, EA explosion, DD, etc) are hits of damage, and can be (and are) affected by penetration.
Former player moderator, valued poster, and early-adopter responsible for The Blood Dance.
GGG has forgotten where they came from. As a result, I no longer support the deceitful, corporate Tencent slave sellouts running this game.
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Posted byMonopolyLegendon Mar 13, 2013, 9:59:59 AMAlpha Member
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So for hits, if my understanding is correct, this is is simply equivalent to "More xx % fire damage" without affecting any resulting dots.
Resists trolls
Casts Joy
Ninja looter
Spreads tar when tickled
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Posted byskarrmaniaon Apr 11, 2013, 1:17:15 PM
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The dot resulting in a hit with firedamage would be burning. The burningdamage is based on the damage you would deal with the hit.
So if you would deal 100 firedamage, the target has 40% fireresistance and it gets ignited, the burningdamage would add up to 80. When you penetrate 30% fireresistance of the same target, the burningdamage would add up to 120. So it increases the damage dealt with the hit and the damage the burning does.
The math may be not to 100% falsefree ;)
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Posted bydateneinheiton Aug 7, 2013, 6:56:26 AM
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So, would it be correct to assume that this gem will now augment burning damage as of 1.0.2?
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Posted byZindaxon Nov 26, 2013, 8:14:44 PM
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So, would it be correct to assume that this gem will now augment burning damage as of 1.0.2?
DoTs don't hit, however searing bond totem is where its questionable.
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Posted bysoul4hdwnon Nov 26, 2013, 9:04:07 PM
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Searing Bond is still just Damage over Time. Won't work.
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Posted byVipermagion Nov 26, 2013, 9:34:34 PMValued Poster
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Previously, modifiers to damage dealt only applied to damage on hits unless they specifically said otherwise (for example, Increased Burning Damage).
As of 1.0.2, generic modifiers to damage dealt will now apply to damage over time that your character causes. Damage over time is not spell damage, nor attack damage, so modifiers specific to those types will not apply. Non-specific "increased damage" modifiers will apply to damage over time. Type-specific modifiers will apply as well. For example, "increased fire damage" modifiers will apply to fire damage over time.
I'm not sure how one who understands the English language could read this and come to the conclusion that fire penetration will not interact both on the initial hit, and also on the dot. Is fire penetration not a fire damage modifier? I think the clear intention, unless the wording is drastically off, is that there will be double dipping. I assume that if this was reasoned, the (intended) counter to large burning and bleed damage is high resists and armor.
The wording appears to be a clear reversal from the previous message:
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Burn (and any damage over time) cannot possibly be affected by penetration. The concept doesn't work - penetration is about how you process being hit by the damage, and DoT never hits anything, it's a constant thing. Penetration is fundamentally about taking X amount of damage as a thing, at a particular point in time. I can't have any interaction with DoT, which is a rate you're constantly taking damage at for a duration.
Secondary damage (IB explosion, EA explosion, DD, etc) are hits of damage, and can be (and are) affected by penetration.
Last edited by Zindax on Nov 27, 2013, 7:23:02 PM
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Posted byZindaxon Nov 27, 2013, 7:16:07 PM
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Read more. At the end of that exact post, it's mentioned that on-Hit effects (such as... Penetration supports) still do not apply to Damage over Time. See also.
EDIT: Also, there's no contradiction there. The second post you quoted clearly states that the difference lies between Hits and Damage over Time - it's completely unrelated to Increased Damage/etc. Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 27, 2013, 7:24:28 PM
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Posted byVipermagion Nov 27, 2013, 7:23:22 PMValued Poster
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Read more. At the end of that exact post, it's mentioned that on-Hit effects (such as... Penetration supports) still do not apply to Damage over Time. See also.
EDIT: Also, there's no contradiction there. The second post you quoted clearly states that the difference lies between Hits and Damage over Time - it's completely unrelated to Increased Damage/etc.
Thanks for the clarification Vipermagi. For the record, I have no idea where you got the conversation that you linked. It is clearly not stated in the message:
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As demonstrated in yesterday's content update video, we're introducing four new microtransactions in 1.0.2: Seraph Spectral Throw Effect, Lightning Bat Pet, and two loosely-Thanksgiving-themed hats that are for sale until December 7: Pilgrim's Hat Helmet Skin and Ornate Pilgrim's Hat Helmet Skin. Click the links for videos of them in action. Our balance guys also have written up an explanation of the damage over time balance changes that we're including in this week's 1.0.2 patch.
Previously, modifiers to damage dealt only applied to damage on hits unless they specifically said otherwise (for example, Increased Burning Damage).
As of 1.0.2, generic modifiers to damage dealt will now apply to damage over time that your character causes. Damage over time is not spell damage, nor attack damage, so modifiers specific to those types will not apply. Non-specific "increased damage" modifiers will apply to damage over time. Type-specific modifiers will apply as well. For example, "increased fire damage" modifiers will apply to fire damage over time.
Modifiers based on how the damage is dealt will apply as appropriate - for example, increased area damage and increased projectile damage will both apply to the poison clouds from Poison Arrow, as it fills an area and is an effect of a projectile.
Viper Strike can be supported by Melee Splash, now that the damage penalty also applies.
Damage conversion does not apply to damage over time.
The changes in this patch apply to most damage over time in the game (i.e. both players and monsters).
One exception is that damage increases will not apply to damage over time that you cause on yourself. For example, having 100% increased damage won't make the chaos damage over time from Blood Rage more powerful.
Note: This is a functional change to Righteous Fire. Previously this skill did increase the burning damage on you by your increased burning damage modifiers. Increased burning damage will still affect the burning on enemies.
Magic, Rare and Unique monsters have a damage bonus built into their rarity - this will now also apply to any damage over time they cause.
On-hit effects do not apply to damage over time.
It does say on-hit effects do not apply to damage over time, but there are no specifics as to what that is. Perhaps where I live there is a different comprehension of the English language? However, one should be more metacognitive when reading these posts and coming to the conclusion that they don't say what I said they say. There are 30 pages of posts where many players say the exact same thing that I did on the Announcement page. Where I live, if someone says what was attached in this post, it means that all things that affect fire damage affect fire dots, and all things that affect physical damage affects bleeds. Please do not interpret this as me stating that I believe that some people here are illiterate. There may be cultural differences in the understanding of the English language.
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Posted byZindaxon Nov 27, 2013, 7:34:51 PM
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I'm not sure how one who understands the English language could read this and come to the conclusion that fire penetration will not interact both on the initial hit, and also on the dot. Is fire penetration not a fire damage modifier?
No, it's not. It's a modifier to how a hit of damage treats resistance, it doesn't (directly) modify damage.
"10% increased fire damage" is a damage modifier. Fire Penetration doesn't do that at all - it means that at the specific point that a particular hit of damage is applied, the enemy's fire resistance is treated as lower than the actual value. That both isn't a damage modifier and can't possibly apply to DoT, because there isn't a specific point that's dealt at at which it could apply.
Last edited by Mark_GGG on Nov 27, 2013, 8:11:44 PM
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Posted byMark_GGGon Nov 27, 2013, 7:59:05 PMGrinding Gear Games
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