Cast on Crit

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thinkingofaname wrote:

I disagree, this skill is still very good without the ability to cast multiple spells per crit, you just have to hyper specialize. This is actually a good thing because unlike cast on damage which is good basically on everybody, this only works if you revolve your entire passive tree plus gear around it, it gives the build an identity and flavor, as well as balance cost vs reward.

What would kill this gem however is if GGG add a cooldown timer on it. That would be an extremely retarded decision so I wouldn't think GGG will go that far, but with 1.01 RF I'm saddened to say I'm not 100% confident.

Without casting multiple spells per crit this gem would lose shitton of dps but would be viable but not on par with other dps gems but on the otherhand if it had cooldown timer it would be as usless as chance to flee which is biggest garbage support gem (sorry for harsh words, but it is what it is).

This support gem is insane!

I tried the Voll's Protector + Cyclone + Multistrike + Cast on Crit + Discharge build and as much as it is amazing, you really suffer badly from Desynch (I think people even put a lightning warp in there as it serves to just resynch you with the server!)

My build:


5L non exciting chest armour with Spectral Throw + Greater Multiple Projectiles + Cast on Critical Strike + Ice Spear + Fireball


The weapon I am using is very unexciting, but it has 1.61 attacks per second and a nice amount of crit. I have weighed this up against daggers with higher crit, but I then went on to calculate the "crits per second" based on attack speed and found this claw, coupled with the +15 life gain on hit was my best option.

EDIT: Just thought I'd mention that at the moment I am only running this on 37.3% chance to crit with Spectral Throw, but you can see from my video below that this is enough for now.


I use the Karui Ward simply to increase the range of my Spectral Throw. So if you think mine is going further than yours it would be because of this.

I made a video you can watch here: http://youtu.be/gham_D2CGtY

I am level 50 so thought I'd show you a Catacombs (Level 53) run. I didn't use any potions and face tanked a couple of the melee bosses in there without any problems. The healing I get from the claw is an absolute must, without it I am just drinking potions non stop. I have noticed that against bosses, such as Piety, each of the Spectral Throw claws can hit and crit, giving me multiple life gain as well as multiple procs of fireball and ice spear. If i get lucky enough to find a 6L (or buy one) I'd add life leech into the foray and move on to daggers, but for now this works perfectly for me and is a heap of fun to play.

I had tried life leech with just Ice Spear (fireball removed) on my 5L but I found this build was much more fun, much more damage, and about the same amount of healing.

Currently the power of this skill comes from multiple spell casts without any manacost. This is resolved through multiple hits. The spells themselves are nowhere near the power of a full spellcaster, but achieve DPS through multiple casts in short amount of time.

When it goes to 1 cast/activation you will basically do no damage with the attack itself and have around 40-50% chance to activate a spell that lacks the proper damage nodes to do anything.

I have a working dagger spellcaster build, my single target ability if Frenzy with 5 charges linked to to 2 cast on crit spells and damage is very unsatisfying.

While I do agree that this gem is ridiculously OPed in it's current form my concerns are that it will get the Ele Hit/RF/Shock Nova treatment.

Still wondering how well CoC could work with elemental equilibrium.

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auLansalot wrote:

The weapon I am using is very unexciting, but it has 1.61 attacks per second and a nice amount of crit. I have weighed this up against daggers with higher crit, but I then went on to calculate the "crits per second" based on attack speed and found this claw, coupled with the +15 life gain on hit was my best option.

You should remember Daggers can also have Spell dmg on them , imo for this gem the only 2 real choices are daggers and wands - personaly im using wand for easy power charges with power siphon and i got 2 attacks per second with this baby

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azmodael wrote:

Currently the power of this skill comes from multiple spell casts without any manacost. This is resolved through multiple hits. The spells themselves are nowhere near the power of a full spellcaster, but achieve DPS through multiple casts in short amount of time.

When it goes to 1 cast/activation you will basically do no damage with the attack itself and have around 40-50% chance to activate a spell that lacks the proper damage nodes to do anything.

I have a working dagger spellcaster build, my single target ability if Frenzy with 5 charges linked to to 2 cast on crit spells and damage is very unsatisfying.

While I do agree that this gem is ridiculously OPed in it's current form my concerns are that it will get the Ele Hit/RF/Shock Nova treatment.

Its not that op in dps compared to most of the melee/ek builds. Its bursty and needs big groups of enemies might look op but those spells dont deal shit ton of dps unless you spend way more nodes on damage passive than you should.


P.s. My friends with Ek and infernal blow clear catacombs and maps way faster than me with coc build. Tho coc build is way more fun to play with.

The AoE damage potential of CoC is simply insane - check out the cyclone EK/Discharge videos circulating around and you will see why it needs to get toned down. I am using spectral throw with GMP and my clearing speed is comparable to that of... say an LA archer. If it were to be nerfed to one spell/attack or on cooldown it'd be completely destroyed.

Nerfing it to 1 cast per attack action is instant GG for me. There is just no way it would be worth 2 socket cost.
I would love some info so i can stop playing it already if thats the case...

@cyclone EK discharge the results are only there with certain uniques. I belive only works in standard with the gear req and desync.

Also it has major weakness being single target dps.

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azmodael wrote:

The AoE damage potential of CoC is simply insane - check out the cyclone EK/Discharge videos circulating around and you will see why it needs to get toned down. I am using spectral throw with GMP and my clearing speed is comparable to that of... say an LA archer. If it were to be nerfed to one spell/attack or on cooldown it'd be completely destroyed.

One reflect mob and those are dead, plus i think that cyclone build used ek on damage taken aswell. Potential dmg is very good vs bigger groups against smaller sizes dps drops down into crap numbers tho. And dont forget you need very high crit, spell power, high att speed, and other stuff to do lots of damage. Very point heavy build.

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NagiSoi wrote:

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azmodael wrote:

The AoE damage potential of CoC is simply insane - check out the cyclone EK/Discharge videos circulating around and you will see why it needs to get toned down. I am using spectral throw with GMP and my clearing speed is comparable to that of... say an LA archer. If it were to be nerfed to one spell/attack or on cooldown it'd be completely destroyed.

One reflect mob and those are dead, plus i think that cyclone build used ek on damage taken aswell. Potential dmg is very good vs bigger groups against smaller sizes dps drops down into crap numbers tho. And dont forget you need very high crit, spell power, high att speed, and other stuff to do lots of damage. Very point heavy build.

I 100% agree on the point heavy part. There is no way you can have any reasonable hp/es with a CoC build because you need to spec into every god damn thing. Accuracy, attack speed, weapon crit chance, spell damage, on top of mana (unlike CoDT) CoC isn't free and that 140% mana cost does apply. Then you need the typical defenses like HP/ES/Res. Not to mention those tend to be all over the place and forcing you to waste alot of points to get across. Unless you have legacy koam or ES equiv armor you are pretty much glass canon.

One cast per attack skill is even more retarded than a hard cooldown. You are basically using an attack that only give you roughly 50% chance (very generous estimate after factor in 2/3 proc chance of CoC and your weapon crit chance/accuracy) to cast a 2 socket less version of a spell, while having less passive to work with than a traditional caster...completely retarded.

If they have to super nerf it because of QQs or FotM streamers, make it a smart cooldown. Something like make CoC proc maximum of 4 times per second. Basically its a hard cap on the damage CoC can pump out, so people with 100 exalts of gear can not abuse it but those who are running with far modest budget can still make good use of it.

Its much smarter than a hard cooldown because RNG can screw you over and make CoC not proc at all for a second or two. With a smart cooldown you could get multiple procs immediately after to help you leech back the damage you took during bad RNG moments and keep you alive. Whereas if they set a hard (retarded) cooldown, you will get at most 1 proc every 250ms even after a series of no proc, this is not enough to upset the damage you took aka. your character is likely dead.

A smart cooldown also balance builds that stack like 4 EKs with CoC. Basically it is still useful because with a Crit you have 4 chances to CoC EK, so you will always proc some EK, but you still can not proc more than 4 EK per second, giving it a hard cap not and letting the user shoot 10 EK a second and destroy everything. Stacking multiple EK is still useful with a smart cooldown because each EK still give you an additional chance to proc, so you are much more likely to reach the CoC smart cooldown cap than someone with just 1 EK linked. This in turn let you have lower crit chances and still reach the max cap, letting the user put those passive points elsewhere at the expense of using additional sockets.

Thoughts?