Blood Mage Dominance, Ascendancy Power, and Lich

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Pages and pages of MoM liches..

In SC Trade there are 2904 liches level 80+

https://poe.ninja/poe2/builds/vaal?class=Lich

239 of them use Mind over matter. Or less than 10% of people who play lich to 80+ use Mind over matter.

1990 of those liches use Eternal life. Or over 68% of lich players.

On hardcore trade: 84% of the lich players use eternal life.

There are literally more titans who use MOM than lich players. That's how bad that passive is on lich. Warrior ascendancy gets more use out of it.

It's fine to play sub-optimal. But at least understand the game well enough to KNOW you're playing sub-optimal.

MOM on lich is sub-optimal. ESPECIALLY since Blood mage can be taken on the same character.

Actually amazing how many times these types of accounts just double and triple down on something and when it gets proven wrong they change the subject


First it was “there’s no defense compared to other ascendancies as bm”

Gets proven wrong

Then it was

“MoM and lich is crazy”

Gets proven wrong because they don’t know there’s spells that cost no mana

As well as



“Quote the devs or I don’t believe it”


While simultaneously staring at ninja for all their answers. Which they can’t even get right either



Rage bait responses. Double and triple downing on being wrong with their own data. Clearly not here for any constructive discussion

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Rage bait responses. Double and triple downing on being wrong with their own data. Clearly not here for any constructive discussion

Seems like you have nothing more that to add. Good talk.

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ThisViolinist#3344 wrote:

Necromantic Conduit is a great damage boost node for minions and Liches alike, but the (boring) passive 5% mana drain is too oppressive if you want to invest into MoM, Eldritch Battery, and/or mana stacking.

Are you trying to go all in on Unholy Might? As you learned that doesn't work. The more mana you have, the harder it is to keep up the buff. To me this suggest that unholy might is not meant to be something you focus on. Instead I would look at what Eternal life has to offer for defense.

Eternal life interacts with Soulless Form to removes 10% of all damage dealt to you. Basically any damage that bypass energy shield does nothing while you have energy shield. From 4 points alone, you become immune to bleed, poison and all damage is reduced by 10%.

The passive "Heavy Buffer" gives you 5% damage reduction. "Atziri's Disdain" give you 10% damage reduction. That's a total of 25% reduction to ALL damage, immunity to bleed and poison. With the only investment being a single unique and some passive points. That seems really strong to me.

If you're life is high enough unholy might is free with the regen from Soulless form. Lich seems plenty powerful.

IMO Blood mage is popular because of things unrelated to it. For example "Doedre's Undoing" and "Choir of the storm". It also doesn't help that stromweaver, chronomancer and infernalist aren't good.

Hopefully you reconsider how to approach the lich. MoM does not seem like the direction to go in.

There is just one problem with all these ascendancy defenses arguments...

In poe you do not need defenses if your dmg and its projection is insane and your skill-use resources never run out.

This is why BM is op and never dies when scaled properly even tho pob defense numbers look like dogwater.

I cannot imagine getting there in an SSF environment, but in trade it is pretty much the goat and spark coc or curse procing is infinitely less clunky and bugged than any melee or any aimed projectile.

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spohanpiscanc#4457 wrote:

There is just one problem with all these ascendancy defenses arguments...

In poe you do not need defenses if your dmg and its projection is insane and your skill-use resources never run out.

This is why BM is op and never dies when scaled properly even tho pob defense numbers look like dogwater.

I cannot imagine getting there in an SSF environment, but in trade it is pretty much the goat and spark coc or curse procing is infinitely less clunky and bugged than any melee or any aimed projectile.

Fair, but that's basically arguing that only SC Trade matters. Despite what the other poster says, I have yet to see this take confirmed by GGG.

If that's your stance, then only the meta class is important to you. That will likely change ever league. They will definitely Nerf/buff things every league, so you'll get a new meta class pretty reliably.

Furthermore, the thing you want nerfed isn't Blood Mage, it's the specific items that make blood mage OP in the current meta; things like "Deodre's undoing" and "choir of the storm".

What I don't want is what happen to Gemling legionaire. It's now an unplayable ascendancy because it was "too strong" in 0.1

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Hope both BM and Lich sees nerfs

+1 it's not even OP, it passed to God mode!

@darrenrob82#3531

I hope this is just your lack of imagination talking, I was not arguing that only SC trade matters at all, tho it is by far the most popular and by that logic should carry the most weight when considering balance changes.

It is completely impossible to balance such interesting ascendancies as poe has in general, let alone across trade vs ssf.

Your "logic" of only meta mattering to me is also completely lacking imagination or done in bad faith.

I have played many classes each league and have lost interest in most of them not because their ascendancies are bad but mostly because of the many bugs with movement and aim and much worse damage projection.

I am also starting to doubt that you have played BM or even checked out the relevant end game builds since you claim items like doedre's undoing and choir of the storm are what makes BM op. If there is an item that fits the description it is rathpith globe. You could delete the 2 you mentioned from the game today and it would not change BM power at all.

The power of BM is in its inbuilt leech, high base crit and gaining HP from ES on body.

Every other caster needs to either sacrifice its body armour slot in favour of the covenant to gain leech or solve the crazy endgame mana costs in another way which ends up costing way too many affixes and still not being as good as perma full life through leech. When you sum it all up, the BM gains about 2 body armours of extra power over the other casters.

What makes BM work in terms of items is access to strong rare and unique jewels, insta leech on hearth of the well or atziri gloves, access to high ES body armour, access to high + to level of spells and rathpith globe. Once these criteria are met the BM becomes a god that oneshots everything in the game with preloaded damage through spark coc comet or frost wall coc comet.

The BM would suffer the greatest hit with the removal of rathpith globe which now provides easy damage and crit chance scaling, 4k life is a realistic endgame average to have which gives 120% crit chance (translates to 18% additional flat crit chance on BM) and 240% increased damage, much more if you have a good cultivated one that scales from mana as well.

Nerfing crit chance on passive skill tree would only make other casters fall even further behind BM.