AI will kill PoE and all related online games that have trade

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newbutnot#7699 wrote:

AI topic is interesting however I doubt it'll be that bad because of the fact that stash space costs something. If stash space was completely free I could see a world that AI trade bots mess up the economy for one league. Even than a solution to the problem would be found fairly fast imo so I really doubt it something to spend too much time worrying about.

stash space is always "free" for the rmt bot runner. They are not using their own money.

Ok so I wont actually get an answer, I guess because nobody here actually knows what an AI agent is or how it works. Or maybe because they don't really know how a bot works. both are fine, but weird that you claim something about a technology you don't even no the minimum basics about.

The only actual argument given was from arknath with him meaning that AI bot will be better disguising themselves as real players. Which is true, but not really of any consequence. Because don't need to disguise themselves in poe. Its free to make a new account and the time needed for that is negligible, so loosing an account to a ban is not really that much of an issue. Throughput however, is. The more successful trades you make, the better in almost all cases. And with that premise any superfluous behavior is counterproductive.

And lets be real the agent type setting is already used, Its not a new idea, you don't have a bot that snipes, farms and trades, you have an agent (xD) for each of those tasks, its just more efficient. If one of them gets banned its less work to set up a new one (which, again is done by an agent, currently some poor human might still be cheaper than some AI pipeline)

Where AI agents will be ofc better is playing the game, the actual oldschool bot that farms loot. It will also be harder to detect, because moveset will indefinitely larger than any standard bot. Outside of the cheap human that is.
Still those will stay detectable for a while yet, especially if the defense also uses AI to analyze movement patterns (against probabilistic learning models) or meta information (login times, variance in hideout interactions etc. pp.)

Now talking about being a better bot, lets just assume we're exclusively talking about trading. Where exactly will there be an improvement? Simple currency flips or standard high item prices can be updated easily via pulls from external sources right now. No need for AI. Wanna predict what rares are good with some trained llm? good luck mate ;)


@junkheadjoePC list and post:

Nobody says AI will no be here to stay, It already is. In many form you haven't seen, but mainly where you need to automate complex tasks (good example would be digitalizing old writing, old maps, translating old COBOL(sorry IBM :D ) shit etc pp.) or analyzing vast quantities of data on a multi dimensional level (after a lot of preparation as every data scientist will tell you)

That said, AI doesn't always make sense. Imagine someone tells you to implement the standard process scheduler in an OS as an AI agent. Or introduce an AI agent on your phone that manages your 3 messengers and one calendar while stealing all your data ;) Its just stupid. Its such a basic thing, and using AI just introduces worthless overhead without or with very little gain. And I feel its the same here.

And on predictions, I love these list especially because I know some predictions that came true. And there are not in this list, because that would be boring. And this list only exists to draw another predictions in question because they sound similar to this list.

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tsunamikun#0433 wrote:

where is an AI bot be better than a usual already in-use bot? Again, I do know a little bit about ML so just go as deep as you like. To specify, I talk about the technical perspective. Because the OP (and you) are just making claims without supplying any facts concerning those so called AI agents.

This is unnecessarily combative my post is a basic extrapolation from increased efficiency and the proof is occurring in real time each league its fairly easy to drag that line into the next few to see what increased activity looks like.

This is what happened with high volume/frequency trading on stock exchanges 10-20 years ago and has happened on any system where arbitrage can be setup to scalp effectively via automation. I'm not pretending to be an oracle here its just a repetition as new markets become available and AI advancements open up abilities to access them.

Though the biggest driving point isn't the development of AI its the access to it. Anytime thresholds are lowered more parasites will make their way into the system its just the nature of things. Video game trading isn't the first and it certainly won't be the last.

My brother in Viridi, high frequency trading has been solved for a little bit over 15 years. You can go over to your AI and just ask it about how solved high frequency trading is and what sort of attacks can be done with it in an unregulated market.

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Draegnarrr#2823 wrote:

This is unnecessarily combative my post is a basic extrapolation from increased efficiency and the proof is occurring in real time each league its fairly easy to drag that line into the next few to see what increased activity looks like.

This is what happened with high volume/frequency trading on stock exchanges 10-20 years ago and has happened on any system where arbitrage can be setup to scalp effectively via automation. I'm not pretending to be an oracle here its just a repetition as new markets become available and AI advancements open up abilities to access them.

Though the biggest driving point isn't the development of AI its the access to it. Anytime thresholds are lowered more parasites will make their way into the system its just the nature of things. Video game trading isn't the first and it certainly won't be the last.

No its quite neccessary because for your speechpattern I can easily recognize that you don't actual know anything of AI. You don't know how those agents work and how to set them up if its not done for you in some fancy package. You don't know the employed actual tech and its risks and drawbacks. You also don't know anything about Bot and their used technology either.

Your core assessment from all this is that AI will do it better, but you cant even describe what it will do better. You think automation and algorithms didn't exist before AI? That bots aren't sophisticated until some kind of agent type AI is working behind it?

Sorry to burst your bubble but high speed trading didn't occur because of AI, just computers, and used alogrithms a lot more primitive that most bots today.

The actual only thing that you could argue is, that algorithms are actually AI under todays definition ;)

so the whole thread is just some YE SINNERS REPENT!!! thingie.

Think this guy explains best how AI will kill poe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW2LvQUcwqc

I'm not buying all the doomer shit, worst case scenario one league is scuffed then GGG comes with a limitation or a block which will address the bots (bot or AIbot driven) and that will be it.

Pandora's box has been opened.

There is no putting the demon back in the box, there is only learning to adapt to it.

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BlaqWolf#1151 wrote:

Pandora's box has been opened.

There is no putting the demon back in the box, there is only learning to adapt to it.

This is an online only ARPG set in a fantasy universe where the points and items shouldn't matter outside the game. The only reason they matter is because pandora's box was left open for various reasons, for way to long. Figure out work arounds for those still legitimate reasons like guild stashes or helping out strangers and friends with legitimate gifts, and then close pandora's box.

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 wrote:

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BlaqWolf#1151 wrote:

Pandora's box has been opened.

There is no putting the demon back in the box, there is only learning to adapt to it.

This is an online only ARPG set in a fantasy universe where the points and items shouldn't matter outside the game. The only reason they matter is because pandora's box was left open for various reasons, for way to long. Figure out work arounds for those still legitimate reasons like guild stashes or helping out strangers and friends with legitimate gifts, and then close pandora's box.

You miss the issue.

Once the box is opened, it's opened. There is no 'too long'.
There is no 'closing' the box, that's entirely why it's called what it is called.

AI is out, and it's *everywhere*, from a hundred different directions. The Chinese are spitting out new, highly advanced, engines every *week*, probably most of them also coded by AI. It's terrifying stuff, but there's no closing the lid.


If you want to be a wainwright after the assembly line and the Model-T, go right ahead. The drivers will putter by and watch as you slowly wither and eventually simply blow away while their put-put becomes a purr, then a growl, then a roar.

And every profession that once supported the horse either adapts to the new paradigm, or vanishes.

Which would you prefer to be?