critical constructive feedback: The loudest opinions aren’t always the most valuable.

It all just comes down to the fact of identity issues PoE2 is struggling with.
Community wants this and that, but when asked about details, it's just vague bullshit. Both sides. I am not able to say what I want from poe2, because:
1) when I get deep into thinking about it, it gets way too complicated and multi-dependent on so many factors i would need to compile it in a table to even glance at the idea of trying to grasp the concept;
2) i want to be satisfied with the game, so I really shouldn't know what to expect from it. You know... to have the fun of exploring, figuring out, overcoming stuff and shit.

Yes, difficult campaign feels great. (I personally would love it even harder)
Yes, screen clearing feels great.

So fuck choosing one, how can we have both?

We are lacking the godtier content imo. Something that would be challenging for top-end min-maxed builds, but would not break the economy.
But we need some reward for the struggle, right?
What now?
It is a reward for min-maxed characters, sooo it does not need to give away market-valuable rewards at all.
The only thing that fits and comes to my mind would be some sort of recognition reward - so maybe a ranking run of something? Just to be on the scoreboard as a reward, to compete with your build and skill.
Like an infinite tower with bosses getting progressively stronger each floor. Or speed run/clear based content. Fcking Simulacrum but it keeps going...
To spice it up, Top players could be rewarded with cosmetics at the end of the League for example.
You get the idea.

PS. I played poe1 for 2h and didn't like it.

This feels like the perfect case of "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Just because someone isn't saying anything, doesn't mean they are thinking about it.

When I started PoE2, I was honestly surprised by how easy it felt compared to PoE1. That is not automatically a bad thing, though. One thing PoE2 does very well is being intuitive and beginner-friendly instead of feeling like you need a PhD in socket geometry just to equip pants.

What I do miss is endgame depth.

In PoE1, I genuinely liked sockets and links on gear. That system had personality. Sometimes you wanted links, sometimes you absolutely did not, and that created interesting choices instead of just giving every item the same clean, sterile "approved by hospital flooring" socket layout. In PoE2, sockets feel functional, but also kind of boring.

Same with skill gems. I liked leveling gems by actually playing with them. It made the skill feel like it was part of my character's journey instead of something I fed upgrade snacks until it reached adulthood. Yes, the current upgrade-item system is simpler, but it does not feel as satisfying. It removes one more layer of progression, and PoE was always at its best when progression had more than one lane.

What I do like a lot in PoE2 is the combat. It is slower, less zoomy, and easier to read. So if that puts me on the "casual" side, then fine, I will sit there comfortably and enjoy being able to see what killed me before I turn into decorative floor loot.

I also agree that reaching major milestones should be rewarded. Just not with P2W garbage. Cosmetics are fine. Maybe stash tabs at most. The reward should be recognition and motivation, not "congratulations, you unlocked a wallet build".

And there are plenty of things worth rewarding because they actually take time and effort:
getting to level 100,
finishing atlas passives,
killing specific atlas bosses,
getting a skill gem to level 40,
and plenty more.

Rewarding players matters. It gives goals meaning. But for me the bigger issue is still depth. PoE2 has a lot of good bones, especially in combat and accessibility, but some of the older progression systems had way more flavor. Right now parts of it feel a bit too streamlined, like someone looked at PoE and decided the solution was to sand off everything weird until only the furniture remained.

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saashaa#5518 wrote:

As it's poe 2 and not POE 1.. for now it's POE 1.. pace of gameplay is for POE 1 - to fast, overstimulating, no synergy based gameplay with just one button and ton of automation

no matter what mechanics and crafting they will add- with pace of gameplay like poe 1 - POE 2 will stay with same community as poe 1.. For experienced player like me - poe 2 is even faster and easier than poe 1 - Me and my wife completed entire campain with just holding right button. I done that before on leapslam with blue items. Without caring and doing any boss mechanics. This is most casual version of poe i have ever played - which is closer to D3 than even poe 1.

as entire point of selling POE 2 was SLOWER- Methodical combat which is end-game doesn't exist. And im not speaking on LATE-=endgame when we kill gods and have bis items but as soon as reaching T1 maps.

and slower methodical gameplay was why POE 2 sells and was so good before..
people liked idea - and just emotional-over-stimulating people from poe 1,d3 and so on.. not.. They spammed and over-spammed forum to GGG see that people have issues that - but that loud community was not a majority of players. Not all target group are active on forum.

The more I played, season after season, the more confused I got as to why they chose to go the route of creating a POE2 when its literally devolving into POE1...
In its current state, there is no reason to play POE2 over POE1, POE1 has more content, The zoom zoom style gameplay these emotional people demand is POE1

They should have just marketed POE2 as a direct succesor to POE1, not a different game, not a different idea, not slower methodical combat, but hey we have decided to bring our game up to par with todays standards, improve the graphics while remaining the same game, moving over league mechanics through each season, they should not have tried to reinvent the wheel

And if thats why they wanted, they shouldn't have called it POE2, should have seperated it from the POE franchise entirely, but thats not what they wanted, thats not how they marketed the game, They weren't trying to target their core audience in the marketting but attract an entirely new audience

While simultaneously keeping the exact same formula as POE1 that resonated with the core POE audience, not the new people being attracted to this franchise, we paid into EA to help shape the future development, yet theres so little community engagement from GGG, no community managers interacting or addressing, then die hard POE fans defending the devs "well they have lives too!" they sold an idea, marketed an idea, that is completley different then what was delivered, and it does not resonate well with the new audience they are trying to attract

Theres a reason POE1 struggled getting new comers, even though I had friends that praised POE1, it was the only game they played hours on end, I could not find the time to get into it as it was so overwhelming, and I do think thats what POE2 will slowly devolve into, Look at launch numbers, then all the previous seasons, wonder why 1/3rd of those players haven't returned?

Its for a multitude of reasons, "too much" "too dificult", "exp loss", "getting ascendancies is too hard", "the game is about one shotting enemies before they one shot you!", "leveling is too hard!" "level 100 should be obtainable within a reasonable amount of time! not the whole season!"

Not all people share these thoughts, I agree with endgame levelling being just too hard and unrewarding for the time spent, going above level 95+ is just a ridiculous amount of work for a few extra passives, although those 5 passives could mean alot more DPS, they should be obtainable within reasonable reach
(and you lose this exp on death!!! "oh but omens protect it", ok how about SSF then? The actual decent omens are way too difficult to get)

We need alot of things buffed, alot of things nerfed, game is in such a messy state with a large divide between the playerbase

Yeah I feel like players need to be HEAVILY nerfed. There is 0 room for power creep for the years to come, if the damage is already in 50mil territory, life/shield recovery is instant and trivial. Endgame bosses are getting one shot etc.
We are still in early access of a game that is supposed to be around for the next 10+ years. We should start slow and ramp up gradually.
There will be a time when they have to bring down player power in a major way, I think it's better to do here in EA, rather than like 1.3 or something. Hopefully they just rip off the band-aid on that in 0.5. If they do, there are gonna be people who are mad, but even some of the poe1 blasters agree that this game is just way too easy at the moment.

MINE MATTERS!
MY OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS!

IM A GOD DAMN LEGEND MAN.

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Megami83Tensei#9384 wrote:

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saashaa#5518 wrote:

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Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 wrote:

This forum esp on league launch is a hysteria fest and a river of tears. Even now moves at insane pace, thankfuly noone can reasonably expect them to read and analyze all of that, so maybe the game won't end up as another designed by mob arpg.

it's already just a clicker game for casuals and only one button builds are efficent in end-game

Because the "press 6 buttons for the same damage" builds are pretty shit and not viable?If the game had actual methodical combat with enemies designed for it people wouldn't run to one-click builds every single league just to be able to clear content at a reasonable speed.

That is true but to have that be a thing is to make this not POE at all and make it where there are only 1-4 mobs on screen at any time like Dark Souls or NRFTW. There is no real world where this is possible and it still be POE. I do think the bosses are where they can make this change but for that to happen they need to nerf boss damage significantly along with buff their HP so the boss fights become a war of attrition so to speak. But to have a "6 button" build for white mobs? That sounds really awful and boring.

As for the people saying difficulty option for campaign... just nerf yourself to get the same thing. There are a million other things they need to fix/add before that is a real idea for dev time. Stop playing meta builds, don't take optimal nodes, wear weaker gear, use one of the majority of skills that are crap. There are options to give you the challenge you want but you refuse to take them unless it is forced on everyone. Increasing the base difficulty only funnels players into even more meta builds and makes the more casual/newer/weaker players leave the game.

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

That is true but to have that be a thing is to make this not POE at all and make it where there are only 1-4 mobs on screen at any time like Dark Souls or NRFTW. There is no real world where this is possible and it still be POE.

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Increasing the base difficulty only funnels players into even more meta builds and makes the more casual/newer/weaker players leave the game.

I agree that the difficulty being asked for is impossible within the same ladder difficulty/league.

The solution is really quite easy to implement. Separate ladder difficulty/league.

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• Standard — Power / Progression
• SSF — Constraint
• 0.1 Patch (Or Harder)** — Mastery / Awareness
• HC — Risk
• HC SSF — Extreme

Once created, the players can decide how difficult it needs to be.

This is the only option I have seen presented that allows both camps the POE "vision" they want. All others force one side into the other (which is not desired) or some combination of the 2 (compromise - the weakest "win-win). Most proposals end up with one side disparaging the other side's playing style or as Jitter amusingly and eloquently points out:

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Jitter912#4278 wrote:

MINE MATTERS!
MY OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS!

"

Jitter912#4278 wrote:

MINE MATTERS!
MY OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS!

IM A GOD DAMN LEGEND MAN.

It's not about whom opinion "matters.
- If game want to hit masses = it will be casual, zooming game
- if game want to hit specific target player base as it was promised to hit slower/methodical combat = it need to build and stay patient for upcoming community player base building. As it will be not game for POE 1 players
like it's now - just a zooming fiesta and right holding cookie clicker like poe 1. Which is based only on items and not on skill that Johnathan talked about.

There's no better/worse opinion. There's promise of making different game and they don't have will to make it. Lied to people who bought it - when game hits 500k people and people liked it

they lied and loses as they listening to the most emotional and loud player base and it have nothing to whom opinion matters.