new bloodline ascendancies: mostly garbage?

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

While only a few nodes might actually be questionable, it’s interesting to see how the new ascendancy classes really highlight the difference between players who follow build guides religiously and those who skip the tutorial leash and experiment on their own. These classes open up so many new possibilities for creativity, it’s almost hard to ignore if you’re the type who likes to try new things.

Players who already do their own thing and know the game inside out are usually more willing to explore, often coming up with some surprisingly creative builds using the new tools GGG has provided. On the other hand, players still tied to guides tend to stick with what they know, approaching new options cautiously, or sometimes not at all.

This is especially noticeable with newer players. Those still learning the basics, or those who prefer the safety of familiar patterns rarely approach new mechanics in a creative way, instead sticking to what’s comfortable while the rest of us get to play around.

Ironically, that’s exactly how all the builds end up getting figured out, someone comes up with an idea, plays around with it, makes a build showcase or guide, and then a content creator spots it, brings it to a broader audience, and just like that it’s suddenly popular. But sadly we’ve also seen plenty of content creators copy paste builds from the community and try to present them as their own without crediting the original creators. But aside from that, this is how builds get made and gain popularity in the first place, thanks to players willing to experiment and explore all the new toys.

Your first paragraph doesn't mesh with your first paragraph. In the first paragraph you say that this league will highlight the differences between players who use guides and players who experiment. Then in the second paragraph you say that players who already do their own thing and know the game inside out usually are more willing to explore.
There's an issue there, not all players who experiment have game knowledge. A lot try to do something, fail, give up and use a guide because they don't have the necessary knowledge to make a build. So not everyone who experiments with the new ascendancies will accomplish anything. Only people who have game knowledge will accomplish anything with the new trees, barring some lucky choice.
The new ascendancies are basically another language to players who don't have extensive game knowledge.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

The Nameless Bloodline alone is a massive build enabler. Allows me to trade in a detrimental staff, that literally enables my reworked CWDT build, for an Ascendancy notable that is more useful to my build than any of the other two after the severe nerfs to passives and Martyr of Innocence, plus I get the option to use another ring for a (manageable) downside. And it's not just my build, either. But yeah, a very specific use case for my very specific build.

What exactly about Nameless Bloodline is enabling your CWDT build? Life cost is not the same as damage received. If you have something else in mind, I'm always keen on tweaking my unconventional CWDT build.

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Aldonés#1294 wrote:

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

The Nameless Bloodline alone is a massive build enabler.

What exactly about Nameless Bloodline is enabling your CWDT build? Life cost is not the same as damage received. If you have something else in mind, I'm always keen on tweaking my unconventional CWDT build.

Oh, crap. Actually, big thanks for making me check. I was tired as fuck when I read the Bloodlines and should have read it again. I thought it had the same mod as the Ritual staff, but it's actually 20% of Life Cost, not max Life.

._. Whoops. Gotta crack open PoB again, I guess. Thanks, man. I, uh, should do a double check next time. My god...

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Oh, crap. Actually, big thanks for making me check. I was tired as fuck when I read the Bloodlines and should have read it again. I thought it had the same mod as the Ritual staff, but it's actually 20% of Life Cost, not max Life.

._. Whoops. Gotta crack open PoB again, I guess. Thanks, man. I, uh, should do a double check next time. My god...

Much better to check now than kill King of the Mist and be punched hard in the face when you realize what happened. I don't know how many times I've had the "perfect build" after spending hours theory crafting that fell flat on it's face due to a single overlooked mechanic.

I actually was completely unaware that Burden of Shadows had any interaction with CWDT. Is it just that having a large flat damage added makes certain low level skills viable? You could pair that with Stasis Prison to offset the life degen on a loop build, bypassing Ward altogether. It's an interesting concept.

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Aldonés#1294 wrote:

I actually was completely unaware that Burden of Shadows had any interaction with CWDT. Is it just that having a large flat damage added makes certain low level skills viable?

You can check my flair for my Poor Man's Ward Loop build that uses lvl 1 spells with CWDT and flat damage. I'm just a touch annoyed that I lost a huge chunk of damage from no longer having my Merc. She was the only source of Zealotry for my character. My build lost around 30% total DPS from the Assassin change and loss of Zealotry. It's not the endgame stage that is the problem, but the constant nerfs makes getting to endgame an utter nuisance, as the game starts to massively lag the longer enemies take to die. And the early damage just isn't good until you get the staff. It's frustrating the hell out of me.

When I read that Bloodline node, I was half asleep and basically only saw "Spells gain added Chaos Damage", "20% of" and "Life" and just instantly opened up PoB. I guess my brain auto connected the staff and the node, so I didn't take a second look at what I actually read. Too good to be true, of course, which completely fucks over my league plans and now I'm lost at what to play.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

I'm just a touch annoyed that I lost a huge chunk of damage from no longer having my Merc. She was the only source of Zealotry for my character.

If you're going with the traditional reduced Skelly duration for wardloop, you can always do what I do (which is quite unconventional).

I have a 4 link setup:

• Animate Guardian
• Raise Spectre
• Empower
• Meat Shield

I spec into Death Attunement for +1 Spectre and either Golem Commander or Sacrifice in order to pick up the Mastery "minions recover 5% life on minion death." That's 5% life per skeleton per trigger. Golem Commander got much more powerful with your Stone Golem granting 20% increased defenses a few leagues ago. That's an extra 40% increased defenses with the passives and gem quality. You also get 4 Spectres and an AG. Most you're minions are extremely tanky once fully invested, and now you only have to replace your AG if he dies.

Perfect Pain Artist is on the squishier end of the Spectres, but it will give you "Zealotry":

• 11.7% more spell damage
• 27.65% increased spell crit
• 30% increased crit damage

You then have 3 more Spectres and an AG to buff you. Furthermore, it lets you go into the Catarina Bloodline for 48% increased defenses if you wish.

Playing a lightning build I end up with about 3x damage from the whole setup as well as a few defensive buffs. Chaos damage isn't supported quite as well, but Perfect Spider Matriarch will net a 10% increased effect of withered to you.

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Aldonés#1294 wrote:

If you're going with the traditional reduced Skelly duration for wardloop

Mine's not classic Ward Loop, more like Cast on Ignite, as we used to call it, and every single spell slot I lose can potentially mess up the loop. It's not as sensitive as Ward Loop, but it has its own drawbacks. Your setup wouldn't work with my build, but I appreciate the thought.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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Aldonés#1294 wrote:

If you're going with the traditional reduced Skelly duration for wardloop

Mine's not classic Ward Loop, more like Cast on Ignite, as we used to call it, and every single spell slot I lose can potentially mess up the loop. It's not as sensitive as Ward Loop, but it has its own drawbacks. Your setup wouldn't work with my build, but I appreciate the thought.

I'm looking at it, at it seems interesting enough. I might make a concept around it though but still using the traditional skelly loop and Stasis Prison. I know for certain your build would melt my PC.

I'd have to play test to see if ~150% damage taken recouped as life over 3 seconds would be enough to prevent you from dying upon activation. However, once that happens I could easily design the rest of the build to work around it.

For Withered debuff I'd probably go with The Balance of Terror jewel and Witchfire Brew flask. That's assuming the combination works as I think it would. However, that's probably no bueno if you're not stacking flask modifiers.

edit: Even manually activating the flask does nothing. You'll have to manually maintain the curse by casting it yourself.

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jdp29#1389 wrote:

There's an issue there, not all players who experiment have game knowledge.

I’m talking about players who have a basic understanding of the game and some grasp of how to create a build, not those who skip the fundamentals, mix things together that don’t really work, or make obvious mistakes by approaching things in the wrong or even counterproductive way, only to realize that the build they are working on is not performing as good as they expect. Using build guides should have taught them more about core interactions. A lot of the game isn’t rocket science anymore, so it’s a bit surprising to see lack of basic knowledge in some instances.

Yes, there are players who stick to guides because they never fully learned the basics at all. That’s where takes like “bloodlines are bad” come from, or when people point fingers at abilities that supposedly can’t work. Meanwhile, you see others making those same “unplayable” abilities work perfectly fine.

It’s totally fine to copy something from a build guide, but we shouldn’t get confused every time GGG releases new toys that don’t appear on guides yet, pointing at them and calling them bad just because we don’t know how to use them yet. The key is to think smarter, not harder.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

I'm just a touch annoyed that I lost a huge chunk of damage from no longer having my Merc. She was the only source of Zealotry for my character. My build lost around 30% total DPS from the Assassin change and loss of Zealotry. It's not the endgame stage that is the problem, but the constant nerfs makes getting to endgame an utter nuisance, as the game starts to massively lag the longer enemies take to die. And the early damage just isn't good until you get the staff. It's frustrating the hell out of me.

I think if a build falls behind simply because it’s missing Zealotry from a merc, that really highlights some of its core weaknesses. The bonus is mostly crit and spell damage, something that can usually be incorporated in other ways.
Alternatively, with a bit more investment, or making different choices, you could run the aura yourself.
Both approaches are realistic and offer flexibility.

If a build is lacking damage even at an early stage, that’s an obvious signal to step back and rethink the concept, or to see how others approach the same idea. For example, players who focus on life stacking actually commit to it, scaling their damage through meaningful investment, rather than barely touching it and hoping it’s enough.
Even the original Wardloop concept is still viable today, despite all the scary nerfs and changes over the years if you need some inspiration of what works. :)

I too, am underwhelmed and don't plan on using any of the new ascendancies.