streamer opinions are worthless

streamers just care about their subs

My only problem is some streamers want the game to be a game they can play 14 hours a day, every day and they lose perspective. What they do in one day might take a normal person a week.

This leads them to encouraging design where achieving goals takes forever with mechanics that have a ridiculously long tail. It should be such that a person with a full time job can fully experience a league.

I'm sure GGG knows this, I just hope they remember it.

it is not the streamers fault for having opinions it is their viewers fault for taking specific issues out of context and going on mass feedback raids so GGG is forced to fix a "feeling" instead of a specific problem. which just means either they work a bloody miracle for the whole game or they accidentally "fix" a bunch of stuff that wasn't broken.

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Mav2125#5750 wrote:

It still doesn’t make it acceptable. The front page should represent the core gameplay.

That's not how marketing works....think about ANY marketing you have ever seen? How close to "reality" is it?

The goal of that particular thing you are looking at is to show polish and the game "at its best" in order to sell it. Currently, that IS the campaign. And early campaign at that.

How often have you watched a video for a game, and tried it out only to find the game played quite a bit differently than what you saw? I would argue that's true 9 times out of 10.


And as I said, I'm sure the video will likely change as the endgame gets fleshed out and set.

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Weaver#3527 wrote:

My only problem is some streamers want the game to be a game they can play 14 hours a day, every day and they lose perspective. What they do in one day might take a normal person a week.

This leads them to encourages design where achieving goals takes forever and has a mechanics have a ridiculously long tail. It should be such that a person with a full time job can fully experience a league.

I'm sure GGG knows this, I just hope they remember it.

This is absolutely the biggest pitfall of "streamer feedback". But only in general without considering the actual individual.

However, the "good" streamers....aka the ones that GGG listens to and actively interact with are REALLY GOOD at acknowledging they play the game in a vastly different way than most other people. Their feedback is actually pretty often against the endless and crazy odds that GGG starts off their mechanics.

The problem with this thread and many in it...is that they don't even know WHAT the streamer feedback is. They simply hear "streamer!" and immediately write it off, don't bother listening or reading it, or get everything second- or even third-hand. This whole thread is based on that.

I bet if you asked the OP what specific feedback he is referring to.....it wouldn't exist. He saw a random video (or even more like 30 seconds of a video), hated it, and wrote off ALL streamers because of it.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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Mav2125#5750 wrote:

It still doesn’t make it acceptable. The front page should represent the core gameplay.

That's not how marketing works....think about ANY marketing you have ever seen? How close to "reality" is it?

The goal of that particular thing you are looking at is to show polish and the game "at its best" in order to sell it. Currently, that IS the campaign. And early campaign at that.

How often have you watched a video for a game, and tried it out only to find the game played quite a bit differently than what you saw? I would argue that's true 9 times out of 10.


And as I said, I'm sure the video will likely change as the endgame gets fleshed out and set.

Very rarely, dude. Most gameplay videos are pretty accurate—like 90% of the time. When they’re off, it’s usually just minor feel differences, not outright misrepresentation. What you see is usually what you get, especially from established studios that don’t have to run on promises.
And even if the game isn’t fully there yet, they absolutely shouldn’t take advice that pushes it away from what’s been promoted. That’s the problem we keep pointing out—exactly which advice is harmful and how it undermines the core direction they’ve been selling.
Yeah, once endgame is fleshed out, cool. But this isn’t just about trailers—it’s about the game’s trajectory and the kind of feedback they’re choosing to follow.

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greenbroccoli#0440 wrote:

abusing one-shot screen clearing build, get loot as fast as possible, complain that loot is not good enough, quit the game, wait for next league, repeat. literally gambling addict waiting for the next dopamine hit. never satisfied.

All of them did that? So according to you there's no one streaming right now and having fun? Nonsense... And even if some streamers, as you say:

1. "made a one-shot screen clearing build"
Are they not allowed to play those builds? Maybe they should play what YOU tell them to? Or maybe you allow for people to play whatever option they want, since it's the developers handling those builds to us, not "streamers" cheating them into existance.

2. "get loot as fast as possible"
Streamers? you just described to vast majority of players, myself included. This is a looting game, why not try to get loot as fast as possible? What's your problem with that?

3. "Complain that loot is not good enough"

Is it good tho? Are they not allowed to voice their opinion? I have no idea what "streamers" are you talking about, however I share that opinion too. And I got that opinion myself, without anyone needing to tell me that. It's a fact, I just finished 96 fully juiced and instilled maps and except for currency I got ZERO items worth more than their gold value.

4. "quit the game, wait for next league, repeat."

So what if some streamers quit the league? Why do you care? Why making posts about it?

You just basically watched someone playing differently than you, having different opinion than you and wanting a different experience than you, and made a post about that, calling them names and making a lot of negative assumptions about them. GG.

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Mav2125#5750 wrote:

Very rarely, dude. Most gameplay videos are pretty accurate—like 90% of the time. When they’re off, it’s usually just minor feel differences, not outright misrepresentation. What you see is usually what you get, especially from established studios that don’t have to run on promises.
And even if the game isn’t fully there yet, they absolutely shouldn’t take advice that pushes it away from what’s been promoted. That’s the problem we keep pointing out—exactly which advice is harmful and how it undermines the core direction they’ve been selling.
Yeah, once endgame is fleshed out, cool. But this isn’t just about trailers—it’s about the game’s trajectory and the kind of feedback they’re choosing to follow.

This is....completely the opposite of my experience researching, buying, and playing games for the past 20+ years. Including actually playing closed and open betas in many of them. By the time the game reaches full release...its almost unrecognizable from its earlier states featured in videos taken generally even earlier than that.

And that's simply not a good stance: "they shouldn't take advice that pushes it away from what's been promoted". Have you SEEN all the videos in the history of the PoE 2 marketing? Every successive video is drastically different from the one before it. Same with PoE 1 back in 2013. Same with D3 pre-2013. Same with D4. Same with Last Epcoh. Etc. That is how "development" works. It's how promos work. Some games change more than others, but almost universally the "gameplay" is drastically different from early promos.

I mean...it doesn't even make sense that a promo video for a game, that doesn't even have a release date, would be or should be considered "accurate". It only exists to give you a "taste" of the gameplay, draw your attention. They could be in beta for another week or another 2 years. Even the campaign (actually quite likely) as shown in those videos will look WILDLY different a few months from now. Every single aspect of the game is in full flux during the EA. It's the entire POINT of the EA, making sweeping changes. A video taken prior to the EA release last year can't possibly capture reality of the game THIS year....nor is it realistic for them to constantly update that promo video every single time they make a change....when the game is NOT released. That is the job of content creators currently participating in the beta/EA, showcasing the current gameplay at all levels for anyone who was "hooked" by the promo.

You are suggesting that the company should lock themselves into a video of content they have already assessed is unfinished and inaccurate. Years ahead of where the development will ultimately reach. And probably even before they 100% know the direction they NEED to take the game development.


I'd actually encourage you to watch some of the "promo" vids for some of your favorite games of the past, or even the present. I can all but guarantee the actual gameplay is drastically different than how it was "billed" to you in those videos. Like.....in every single game.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

And that's simply not a good stance: "they shouldn't take advice that pushes it away from what's been promoted". Have you SEEN all the videos in the history of the PoE 2 marketing? Every successive video is drastically different from the one before it. Same with PoE 1 back in 2013. Same with D3 pre-2013. Same with D4. Same with Last Epcoh. Etc. That is how "development" works. It's how promos work. Some games change more than others, but almost universally the "gameplay" is drastically different from early promos.

You should read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave."

You equate honest development evolution with dishonest expectation-setting.
I mean...it doesn't even make sense that a promo video for a game, that doesn't even have a release date, would be or should be considered "accurate". It only exists to give you a "taste" of the gameplay, draw your attention. They could be in beta for another week or another 2 years. Even the campaign (actually quite likely) as shown in those videos will look WILDLY different a few months from now. Every single aspect of the game is in full flux during the EA. It's the entire POINT of the EA, making sweeping changes. A video taken prior to the EA release last year can't possibly capture reality of the game THIS year....nor is it realistic for them to constantly update that promo video every single time they make a change....when the game is NOT released. That is the job of content creators currently participating in the beta/EA, showcasing the current gameplay at all levels for anyone who was "hooked" by the promo.

You are suggesting that the company should lock themselves into a video of content they have already assessed is unfinished and inaccurate. Years ahead of where the development will ultimately reach. And probably even before they 100% know the direction they NEED to take the game development.


I'd actually encourage you to watch some of the "promo" vids for some of your favorite games of the past, or even the present. I can all but guarantee the actual gameplay is drastically different than how it was "billed" to you in those videos. Like.....in every single game.

Marketing defines a product’s identity. It tells players what kind of experience to expect. Even if gameplay evolves, the core loop and tone shouldn’t flip.
From a business standpoint, trust is fundamental—especially for a company operating in the public sphere. My point still stands: marketing sets expectations, and shifting direction after selling a vision breaks that trust.
Using bad industry examples to justify the same behavior doesn’t make it acceptable. This is an example of argumentum ad populum—popularity doesn’t make something right.

You equate honest development evolution with dishonest expectation-setting.

And I’ve stuck with a game for ten years. It looks almost nothing like it did at launch—but when they released it, they didn’t lie about what it was. That’s the difference.