Anyone else just kinda hate the whole mercenaries mechanic?

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trixxar#2360 wrote:

Hate? No

Underwhelming? Yeah. There is not a lot of interaction with other content in any meaningful way, nor much depth.

So, first league in a year or so, pretty underwhelming.

Given the short time frame in which GGG pumped this league out, we shouldn't be surprised. =9[.]9=

I didn't even make it out of Act 1 this league. So yes, I hate it.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

They are not just "stat sticks".

You say Mercs are not just stat sticks, but for the vast majority of cases, that’s exactly what they are, walking bundles of extra auras, curses, and utility buffs, free player power.

On top of that, most of these bonuses are things Animate Guardian has been providing minion builds for ages. The Merc’s contribution is largely repackaging those familiar convenience buffs and power creep into one unit for everyone.

Only in very rare cases does a Merc truly act as a build-enabling game changer. Take the solo-player aura bot setup, where the Merc actually carries the clear and your character exists solely to support it, allowing full content clearing without the need for a second player. Or consider the passive charge stacker builds that exploit unique item combinations to generate insane flat damage while bypassing mechanics that would normally make those items unworkable. Those are the real exceptions, but they’re niche, expensive, and certainly not common.

Those builds weren’t invented by you, and given your well-known budget constraints, a single item from those setups likely exceeds your entire league’s net worth. So claiming credibility for those rare exceptions when your own setup is just a glorified stat stick holder is a bit rich.

If your build only functions because it’s getting free player power handed to it via a Merc, it’s not truly enabling, it’s a sign the build relies heavily on borrowed strength and convenience. If your build can only survive thanks to this stat stick, that’s less clever design and more a obvious indicator that your build is bad if you just rely on a Merc boosting your stats to become useable.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

If your build only functions because it’s getting free player power handed to it via a Merc, it’s not truly enabling, it’s a sign the build relies heavily on borrowed strength and convenience. If your build can only survive thanks to this stat stick, that’s less clever design and more a obvious indicator that your build is bad if you just rely on a Merc boosting your stats to become useable.

I can't believe I'm saying this, because I agree with all the rest of your post.....but actually in his defense I disagree with this.

Creating a single build across two "players" is actually quite a novel and creative concept. But only if neither are simple aurabots. Sure it is borrowed power that shouldn't exist in the first place, but utilizing it BECAUSE it exists in this moment is the very reason for league mechanics to exist. This is actually pretty standard for leagues: creating characters that can ONLY function thanks to the league mechanic, and cease to function without it. I would even say this type of build is MORE clever design than any tried-and-true proven build that can work in any PoE environment, all the time.

But like you said, these types of things are incredibly rare, niche, and likely underperforming like crazy. They SHOULD be far more common, yet they aren't because the stat-stick mercs are just completely off the charts beyond godly powerful. In the other thread about stackers, this sentiment is the biggest reason given: no one thing should be so completely dominant as to make any other decision simply the "wrong" decision. While the facts about stackers were completely wrong, the sentiment is true and that can be seen in all its glory with Mercenaries. If you are NOT running your mercenary as a pseudo stat-stick AG hybrid....you are simply using them objectively wrong. The gap is that wide between their usages and the payoffs. In all aspects; budget and expected power return in offense and defense.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

A lot of words to say absolutely nothing. I did not say it wasn't functional

A lot of words that actually say more than you think, and funny enough, you already admitted the same earlier. Nothing but a stat stick :)

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

A build of mine that I thought was dead is about to come back, and only because of my Merc. They make it possible to access mechanics that'd otherwise have either too high opportunity cost

I do get the sentiment that they are stat sticks, and i do agree that they are, even if they enable some builds. It's probs more an intellectual definition of what builds pertain to more then anything, in my view a build that needs added power to function isn't a build, this includes all those PoBs with ticked flasks etc.



If the build doesn't stand on it's on then it's not a build. The reason i hold to this idea is because for me and my builds i want to be able to take the base functionality and then add onto it with the league mechanics. That way i will always have the build i like and i know works, everything on top is the icing for the cake. This also means i can have multiple functional builds to choose from depending on buffs/nerfs/changes.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

but I realize I'm wasting my time trying to teach you anything

If you're still confusing borrowed power with real build support, you're probably not in the best position to teach others. Most of us figured that out years ago. You’ll get the hang of it yourself eventually, after all, you’re still pretty fresh to the game.
But if antagonizing others helps you feel better about being wrong, carry on.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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gr0o0ve#1473 wrote:

I do get the sentiment that they are stat sticks, and i do agree that they are

They are not. It seems some of you are in need of a refresher what stat sticks were:

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A "stat stick" is a one handed weapon that you choose to hold in your off-hand to gain its global modifiers, but without actually attacking with it.

That was largely agreed upon. They were typically sceptres carried in the off-hand, with stuff like "Gain % Phys as extra Fire, Cold, Lightning" etc.

Me using a Merc for an aura on a build with Blood Magic that I otherwise couldn't, i.e. Zealotry for Consecrated Ground, or an amulet slot to avoid spending a ton of passives to cover necessary regen, or having them disable boss HP and ES regen, does not make them a stat stick.

Stat sticks were deliberately exploiting a mechanic and are 100% the only reason why we now have all melee skills become disabled if you equip a weapon it cannot use. And they are also 100% the reason why we no longer gain bonuses from items that become disabled when we don't fulfill the requirements.

Stat sticks would be used with i.e. STR characters by equipping an item, i.e. Astramentis, to fullfil the INT requirement, then taking it off, which would disable the sceptre and prevent it from being used by your attack skill. Or by simply using them for something like a claw build, where the main skill couldn't use sceptres.

I know because I was playing with stat sticks myself at the time. Brutus' Lead Sprinkler builds were also using them.

If you are using your Merc for added damage only, that's on you. That does not make them glorified stat sticks. A lack of creativity can be improved upon.

Stat stick is not specific to a single item anymore, it has been taken up by the zeitgeist to colloquially mean a concept of something that gives stats but is otherwise useless for the main purpose (a weapon), when you argue semantics you show you lost the argument. Mercs are stat sticks because you don't use them for the intended purpose (combat) you use them as active/passive buffs (aura bots). The merc doesn't give me damage or stats, i give them items which in turn boost my power, the damage of my merc is shit.

You proved my point, cheers!

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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gr0o0ve#1473 wrote:

You proved my point, cheers!

I'm not sure you understood your own point. Because by that logic, any and all other players joining your party that happen to be running an aura or using any active skill to help in combat could be considered stat sticks. I'd argue that only holds true if you don't know the difference.

The difference between a real player and a merc is that a real player in any case would deal actual damage themselves, unless it's an aura bot or any other dedicated support character. The auras of other players may or may not even help your build in any way, and they may or may not even grief your builds damage by using a different mark on enemies.

Meanwhile mercs just offer a handpicked selection of things you want to have for your own specific build, while offering nothing but buffs, in this case yes they are just a a stat stick to a degree.