Monsters deal 95% less physical damage?

kaoms binding and pyroshock clasp on both you and your merc converts 55% (perfect rolls) of their phys damage to elemental (hits not DoT)
add in the new elementalist node for an additional 40%

There are conditionals to meet, but essentially this is monsters converting 95% of their physical hit damage to elemental...

Didn't they just nuke the sibling stat "phys taken as" from orbit because of this in 3.25?

Conversion doesn't work that way. Conversion over 100% will be evenly distributed, and some monsters (well, a lot, actually) have damage conversion already. DoTs also cannot be converted. Conditionals are also never a guarantee. The mod "Monsters have #% chance to avoid Elemental Ailments" literally counters this and you cannot modify it with Shaper of Flames because the mod is a defensive stat on the enemy's side and Shaper of Flames only overrides your offensive stat to 100%. Penetration also applies here, as do any and all Elemental Damage modifiers that otherwise normally wouldn't, so you could potentially end up taking more damage than with some PDR and Endurance Charges or something.

I think some of you are getting too hung up on damage conversion. It's not as if we didn't have high amounts of X taken as Y before, and the game is still deadly AF. People keep saying the X% Phys as extra Y Elemental mod is the deadliest, when it's just not. The deadliest is, by far (if you are not CI), the % Phys as extra Chaos + Wither. It can take your 90% max res character from "Ouh, I feel so tanky!" to "Oh, fuck, why am I taking so much damage now?!".

Yep there's downsides, but I think you are discounting the upsides.

- resistance mitigation vs armour mitigation
- not all the ele res the phys is converted to is the same (meaning any ele reduced by armour mods help more (are they still in the game?)
- split ele types means ele pen is not as bad
- less phys means overwhelm is not bad

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whyBish#2562 wrote:

Yep there's downsides, but I think you are discounting the upsides.

- resistance mitigation vs armour mitigation

If you want to use Armour, you either stack a lot of it or you shift damage taken, so that less Armour in total is required. There isn't really anything inbetween anymore after nearly all the % additional PDR was removed.

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whyBish#2562 wrote:

- not all the ele res the phys is converted to is the same (meaning any ele reduced by armour mods help more (are they still in the game?)

They literally don't if your damage mitigation for all elements is equal. Percentage based and all that. In fact, converting damage could make you squishier under the right circumstances. Suddenly, you'll have to start worrying about Curses, -% max res, Penetration, Exposure, certain debuffs that cannot be avoided and so on.(*)

GGG knows how easy it is to get elemental mitigation, hence why so many things using Elemental Damage are scaled way up to account for resistances. If you don't believe me, browse PoEDB's numbers on boss skills.

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whyBish#2562 wrote:

- split ele types means ele pen is not as bad

It's equally bad. Elemental Pen applies to all three. Though I think you probably meant single Pen, which is less rare. You'll encounter the above mentioned (*) way more often.

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whyBish#2562 wrote:

less phys means overwhelm is not bad

Overwhelm is a pretty meh mechanic once you understand how to deal with it. I pick that mod even on my tank build. I use automated Immortal Call, which mostly bypasses this mod, as it grants less Physical Damage taken, which is not Physical Damage Reduction. Though you are correct; one of the few scenarios where that'd noticeably help.

If you want to feel tanky with this mechanic, you shouldn't rely on it. Use it as an additional layer but build for defense first. Something like Cloak of Flame/Lightning Coil, Arctic Armour and some Block will go a long way before you even add this. Cloak is still 30% effective PDR even at standard 75% max res. That is my advice, really.

E: phrasing

Baumi is.....slightly wrong again. Not 100% but he's unnecessarily complicating things with misleading information.

You can (pretty easily) now convert nearly all of enemy physical damage to elemental. And in a "standard" well-built character, this will be much much much more effective than armor / physical reduction, simply because you can't get the same phys reduction values that you can get for elemental even ACCOUNTING for curses, penetration, exposures, etc. And ofc we all know that armour and tooltip PDR is notoriously unreliable and inaccurate.

His favorite thing to talk about with all this is penetration and enemy self-conversion. Neither of which actually MATTER due to sources of penetration being rare and low, and due to the fact that self-converting enemy attacks don't stop YOUR conversion from still taking effect. This might be mildly annoying for a build that only builds ONE resistance super high....but that is exceedingly rare in the days of Melding Flesh.

I think what he is getting hung up on is the fact that penetration has a greater effect if you have higher resistances, BUT that ignores the fact that you are already mitigating far more base damage to begin with. So even if you are hit with a penetrating elemental damage that causes you to take 100% or more of that particular damage.......thats 100% more of damage that has already been reduced by 75% or likely more.


Because the conversion numbers are higher than most "damage taken as" builds can get, it will ultimately be the stronger and more reliable defense. This isn't to say that CoF isn't very very strong.....its to say that converting most of the enemy physical damage to elemental is still ultimately going to be better than leaving it physical and trying to protect against that. You don't need to "worry" about exposure or penetration or anything like that....the situations where they MIGHT make a noticeable difference are going to be negligible and/or non-existent.

I just want loot to drop.

When did I sign up for a physics and calculus class?

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superbomb1967#5561 wrote:

I just want loot to drop.

When did I sign up for a physics and calculus class?

Well here's the thing about PoE: its all math and knowing all the interactions can really help you min/max.

BUT

You hardly need to know any of it to succeed at most of what the game offers. Just like in real life: you don't need to know advanced physics to live in our gravity-filled reality. You don't need to know the chemical makeup of all things to know that "fire is hot"

@cowpoo

Feel free to prove us all wrong and make some ungodly tank with Shaper of Flames that fulfills the vision you seem to have. Oh, and be sure to unhide your profile, post a PoB and some gameplay.

RemindMe! 2 months

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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superbomb1967#5561 wrote:

I just want loot to drop.

When did I sign up for a physics and calculus class?

Well here's the thing about PoE: its all math and knowing all the interactions can really help you min/max.

BUT

You hardly need to know any of it to succeed at most of what the game offers. Just like in real life: you don't need to know advanced physics to live in our gravity-filled reality. You don't need to know the chemical makeup of all things to know that "fire is hot"

Yeah, true. The complexity is both a blessing and a curse.

They have felt that party gameplay is superior compared to solo so they brought one dummy player to solo players.

These things have been accessible by multiplayer always; they have been always "broken". It is same thing as aura stacking, curse botting or any other that just is not possible to exceed with solo character.