Very stupid Decision to kill Frost blade of katabasis

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Aynix#7757 wrote:

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

That, imo, is the real problem. Gutter builds will stay in the gutter because GGG only keeps looking at the top end.

Ofc they will look at top end. Thats the way they should do it. Just because your 10 divine build isnt OP doesnt mean the skill itself isnt busted.

Fair, though that wasn't my point. Perhaps I failed to convey that, as that requires a prerequisite of defense changes I did not mention.

Gutter in this context not meaning trash, but bottom end of the DPS curve. Apologies if my wording gave the wrong impression. I was basically thinking of a trickle-down situation.

The game has shifted significantly over the last 5-6 years, more and more into DPS territory. We used to have, comparatively, a lot more defensive capability and content was tuned accordingly, so high DPS wasn't necessary. 800k-1M DoT DPS and 1.5-2M Hit DPS for comfortable Uber Elder was the minimum standard. It has doubled because monster life was doubled.

This one's on GGG because their reaction to top end builds was to increase monster HP and defenses across the board, while taking away more and more defenses, in particular from the passive tree. Nowadays, I feel the kill-or-be-killed META is more true than ever.

Like I said: Without a DPS cap, this isn't going to change. It's only gonna go upwards, and it's basically why we have builds that can deal over a billion (!) DPS.

DoT has a DPS cap of 35-something million, due to the integer cap if I remember right, but DPS in general needs something similar (imo) if this is ever going to change.

We are in such situation because they refused to nerf strong skills (because they were scared of more backlash) and refused to buff bad skills "because numeric changes are not enough". 3.26 shows that it changed.
Were the nerf and buffs enough to change meta in grand scheme? No, not really. But if they will continue to nref strong skills by 25% every league and buff bad skills by 25% every league, in several leagues meta can change A LOT.

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Aynix#7757 wrote:

But if they will continue to nref strong skills by 25% every league and buff bad skills by 25% every league, in several leagues meta can change A LOT.

They have tried that several times before. The baseline is set too high, so it doesn't matter unless they bring the baseline down. They nerf X and buff Y, now Y takes the spot. Y gets nerfed again, Z pops up. People cry about X, they buff X a little, Z gets a nerf, Y gets a small buff. X, Y, Z are nerfed next patch. Then new stuff enters the ring and the cycle repeats.

Seriously, just look at Cyclone. OP af for a long time, gets nerfed, nobody uses it, gets buffed, people use it for a while but doesn't feel the same, Shockwave gets added, Shockwave is kinda OP, now Shockwave is preferred on Cyclone over actual Cyclone.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

Seriously, just look at Cyclone. OP af for a long time, gets nerfed, nobody uses it, gets buffed, people use it for a while but doesn't feel the same, Shockwave gets added, Shockwave is kinda OP, now Shockwave is preferred on Cyclone over actual Cyclone.

I think I've made at least 1 cyclone build in every league since 3.0 and likely before it. Never fell out of favor (or power) for me... Also can't remember a time where "nobody used cyclone". It's almost as ubiquitous as RF.

As for shockwave preferred over cyclone....thats also not true. Shockwave is pretty evenly split among straight cyclone, and CoCS/CWC. In fact, it might be the least among those variants.

Shockwave is the easiest type to build on a budget, but when you get to actual endgame cyclone builds, it stops being the most "popular". Especially when you have some awesome conversion cyclone builds out there and killer axe / claw / swords.

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BaumisMagicalWorld#0673 wrote:

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Aynix#7757 wrote:

But if they will continue to nref strong skills by 25% every league and buff bad skills by 25% every league, in several leagues meta can change A LOT.

They have tried that several times before. The baseline is set too high, so it doesn't matter unless they bring the baseline down. They nerf X and buff Y, now Y takes the spot. Y gets nerfed again, Z pops up. People cry about X, they buff X a little, Z gets a nerf, Y gets a small buff. X, Y, Z are nerfed next patch. Then new stuff enters the ring and the cycle repeats.

Seriously, just look at Cyclone. OP af for a long time, gets nerfed, nobody uses it, gets buffed, people use it for a while but doesn't feel the same, Shockwave gets added, Shockwave is kinda OP, now Shockwave is preferred on Cyclone over actual Cyclone.

What they were doing for all those years was completly diffrent. They actually never tried to balance the game. They were nerfing outliers/meta skills and buffing something that was already decent to artifcially create new meta. Soemtimes, raerly, they were buffing bad skills just so people can shut up about them never buffing bad skills. The problem was Chris vision. His vision for the game was "game need bad skills for players to apriciate good skills".

Now that Chris is gone, there is chance they will actually try to balance the game out. Im not sure if what they are doing is start of long term buffs/nerfs streak to balance things out. However what they need to do is stop listening to players, especially to those who cry about nerfs. Also stop using "feelings" to buuf/nerf things. Use raw data and nothing else.
At the end of each legaue check data for how many players played each skill. Nerf top 10% skills and buff bottom 20% skills based on how many people played it. But not some BS 5% damage change. Those changes need to be substantial. Repeat it enough times and not only meta will change drastically, it will also lower the ceiling, fixing the problem with certain skills reaching hundreds milions DPS