I really dont understand how defences work in this game

"

dramargu#4381 wrote:

If there is one thing this game doesn't need, it's for any loser to only pick up defensive nodes on the tree and expecting to never die and for all content to just patiently wait for 1 hour till you crawl through it. That will surely make the game better.

Guessing you are one of the "winners" with years of poe experience and "Now I can do it so everyone should do it like me" stance?

I won't even bother asking what are those "literal afk unkillable builds" in poe2, how numerous are they, and whether or not you were exaggerating. It wasn't the point. When basic mechanics present at the core of every character only become functional after applying insider knowledge and actively trading - this is bad. Not even "bad", just bad, universally.

Indeed, excesses like "unkillable" and "spawn-kill all threats" should be there for enthusiasts like you, but should still remain excesses, not baseline requirement starting from midgame onwards.

"

dramargu#4381 wrote:

Bro got into ARPGs and wanted to tank-
Yo, hate to tell you, but this is a game about killing stuff, not bending over and taking it bareback for as long as you like it.
Both Poe1 and 2 have literal afk unkillable builds that still dish out damage. Meanwhile you're whining about low level uniques and how some armor isn't saving you as if you started playing yesterday. Maybe it's time to admit that numbers aren't your strong suit and just follow a fecking guide.

If there is one thing this game doesn't need, it's for any loser to only pick up defensive nodes on the tree and expecting to never die and for all content to just patiently wait for 1 hour till you crawl through it. That will surely make the game better.

lul... ok...
Let me rephrase the issue so your single braincell can understand it:

"Path of exile is an arpg game with supersize skilltree, bazillion gems and items with so much configuration you can create almost anything you'd desire"

vs

"LMAO. stop doing memebuild and follow that 6 buildguide that's valid n00b"


Thank you for your contribution, now have a seat in the backup clown corner and let the others have a normal discussion in the
feedback group. Where devs emphasized already if you want what you just described get back to poe1.
Poe2 isn't planned to be a poe1 mk2

Not to worry, neither does GGG.

But heres a another reason why defensive builds don't work:

Because there's no damage based on defensive stat.

DPS increase can be done by having mana, ES since there are skills even that multiply your damage output the more of those you have.

Armour however been left out.
A single node that would turn your armour to damage would already shift the problem a bit.
If you cater to glasscannons and tank builds are even punished or skills are actually bugged don't tell me "people don't play tank because everyone plays glasscannons"

I mentioned Vengeful Fury that is a waste of point. I know it scales with items, but if a lvl82 warbringer with full "tank" build gets like 4% armour when the skill description says 1 rage = +1% armour
you feel a bit insulted for picking the skill.

I am aware that normally base value is counted, but for a key node like this for such huge investment it is horrible balance issue and MUST need rework.

Its not even like the Flail or Sword skills. Armour and Rage exist in the game. The value of this skill is utterly disappointing.

But there's a single skill that helps you make damage by having armour:

Revenge (3% of body armour = thorn)
Whats the issue with it? No synergy. There 3 skill that increase body armour value:
Sturdy Metal
Ancient Aegis
Stone Skin (titan)
But neither of those increases counted for Revenge.


"Oh... deal with it"
The issue is the equivalent skills for Dex classes do synergize. Spectral Ward, Subterfurge Mask for example...

And yet again, as if it would be so op when the game is about rush mechanics.

Just wonder why are you even butthurt so much that others players having fun by clearing a map while you clear a continent?

I think having pure evasion be insufficient is bad. Cause the archetype of an evasive character just dies. Same for how underwhelming armour is.

The thief and warrior shouldn't have to become mages to survive. Their respective defensive toolsets should be sufficient.

And the games damage output should be balanced around the idea that certain characters don't have 6k es as a cushion.

The one shots are boring.

"

Echothesis#7320 wrote:

Of course, choosing one of recharge kickstart methods is the only reason my char had been viable at all. But these "recharge starts when..." modifiers are unique-only, and pigeonholing people into specific uniques (which won't drop without trade) just to get the core defense functional is another textbook example of poorly balanced combat.

The core character archetypes should work FIRST, then various exotic gimmicks are built on top of them to enhance performance for tedious fans. With GGG, it is ass backwards as usual: content is balanced around you already having advanced gimmicks, while default core mechanics are a noob bait:) New players don't know about all those game-changing modifiers on items, it is not explained anywhere. They try provided passive tree, fail, and quit.

Don't you feel the slightest bit of disregard though to the weakness element and what I said?

I said basically if a mage has tons of ES that they're heavily protected from burst, much like a shield and mace guy but with the weakness of a lot of poke damage which you need to make up for with other elements of play but instead you say that's "poor balance", well where would be the balance aspect for you? For ES to be perfect and not have any weaknesses but basically be far better than HP is?

"

TrunktenUK#3407 wrote:

"

Echothesis#7320 wrote:

Of course, choosing one of recharge kickstart methods is the only reason my char had been viable at all. But these "recharge starts when..." modifiers are unique-only, and pigeonholing people into specific uniques (which won't drop without trade) just to get the core defense functional is another textbook example of poorly balanced combat.

The core character archetypes should work FIRST, then various exotic gimmicks are built on top of them to enhance performance for tedious fans. With GGG, it is ass backwards as usual: content is balanced around you already having advanced gimmicks, while default core mechanics are a noob bait:) New players don't know about all those game-changing modifiers on items, it is not explained anywhere. They try provided passive tree, fail, and quit.

Don't you feel the slightest bit of disregard though to the weakness element and what I said?

I said basically if a mage has tons of ES that they're heavily protected from burst, much like a shield and mace guy but with the weakness of a lot of poke damage which you need to make up for with other elements of play but instead you say that's "poor balance", well where would be the balance aspect for you? For ES to be perfect and not have any weaknesses but basically be far better than HP is?

Recharge stopped by chip damage is the least of pure ES problems. Without mix of either armor or evasion, it gets drained way faster by physical/chaos damage, former usually gets 0% mitigation, latter is double shield damage by design (yay volatile plants). As a result, your smaller shield on monk works better than my 6k + 3k health (or 10k if I ditch unique chest and spend more div on minmaxing ES on other stuff).

Mom and EB were basically removed (not even nerfed), and you are offered CI as only way to shore up vs bleed/poison/chaos hits. So take off another 2-3k ehp which you could also heal with flask. So "tons of ES" you imagined are evaporating pretty fast.

I didn't say a defense should be perfect, bug GGG went too far and made so many holes in defenses that any single archetype is non-functional by itself in endgame.

Edit: before another Poppy Proudfellow swoops in and says how he was doing all content asleep as ES, clearing pace is what matters in poe. If you have to kite and fallback to recharge before next pack - already non-optimal. Met bleeding on hit rare and had to kite it - already non-optimal compared to characters with working recovery who clear maps in one movement.

"

Echothesis#7320 wrote:

I didn't say a defense should be perfect, bug GGG went too far and made so many holes in defenses that any single archetype is non-functional by itself in endgame.

Edit: before another Poppy Proudfellow swoops in and says how he was doing all content asleep as ES, clearing pace is what matters in poe. If you have to kite and fallback to recharge before next pack - already non-optimal. Met bleeding on hit rare and had to kite it - already non-optimal compared to characters with working recovery who clear maps in one movement.

Ok so you want a single archetype I get it.

So just to be clear would that be a refusal to use 2 of the same weapon setup or does it have to be one to rule them all? As I believe that would be completely against the setup of PoE2.

I mean sure you can have the standard of having to clear through the hardest of T15/16 maps quickly but in what kind of time frame do you want that power alongside the fact that this game promotes the use of actual defensive measures such as parry/shield/ice walls/massive cc's/using minions to "taunt mobs" and/or collectively obtaining charges/damage increases to perform a big move?

Obviously you're posting here so you must like POE2 to some regard but I really feel you want to be POE1 inside of it when that I feel should be near the pinnacle of a great build that you've worked hard at (whether that be through sheer luck of loot/working the few crafting systems and/or working the trading).

Edit: The only major drawback I can see from POE2 is the lack of self obtained unique's and I would like a quest or additional content through the campaign for a unique merchant and for slightly more unique merchant spawns on the End Game map, with Atlas points to tailor the selection...alongside more Mercenary's (I don't see them often enough even with % increases of finding them).

"

TrunktenUK#3407 wrote:

"

Echothesis#7320 wrote:

I didn't say a defense should be perfect, bug GGG went too far and made so many holes in defenses that any single archetype is non-functional by itself in endgame.

Edit: before another Poppy Proudfellow swoops in and says how he was doing all content asleep as ES, clearing pace is what matters in poe. If you have to kite and fallback to recharge before next pack - already non-optimal. Met bleeding on hit rare and had to kite it - already non-optimal compared to characters with working recovery who clear maps in one movement.

Ok so you want a single archetype I get it.

So just to be clear would that be a refusal to use 2 of the same weapon setup or does it have to be one to rule them all? As I believe that would be completely against the setup of PoE2.

I mean sure you can have the standard of having to clear through the hardest of T15/16 maps quickly but in what kind of time frame do you want that power alongside the fact that this game promotes the use of actual defensive measures such as parry/shield/ice walls/massive cc's/using minions to "taunt mobs" and/or collectively obtaining charges/damage increases to perform a big move?

Obviously you're posting here so you must like POE2 to some regard but I really feel you want to be POE1 inside of it when that I feel should be near the pinnacle of a great build that you've worked hard at (whether that be through sheer luck of loot/working the few crafting systems and/or working the trading).

Edit: The only major drawback I can see from POE2 is the lack of self obtained unique's and I would like a quest or additional content through the campaign for a unique merchant and for slightly more unique merchant spawns on the End Game map, with Atlas points to tailor the selection...alongside more Mercenary's (I don't see them often enough even with % increases of finding them).

Weapon swap is potentially useful feature but bugged to hell, including possibility to permanently brick character with incorrect attribute requirements disabling your skills on both sides.

To clarify, it isn't about me, what 1 player likes to play more is irrelevant in game design. When you provide base archetypes to players, their viability shouldn't differ like day and night. Could be poe1 style combat, could be poe2, but when it is unbalanced like above, both will suck and lose all players except those happy to keep on provided meta builds.

Edit: I played ice walls in 0.1, it was terribly slow, walling every mob pack. And minions fall into "kill everything before it sneezes at you" category, not as defense.

Use path of building to check your effective health pool.

Something near 25k is near the highest balance with the dmg you can achieve at the moment of the game.

And even 25k is kinda of low for all dmg that come and go...
But you can try reaching 50k effective health pool and go 0 dmg.... There is this option to go 🫣