Why POE1 is still the best ARPG, Better than LE, POE2, and Diablo 4

POE1 was lightning in a bottle.

POE2 is a fart in a shoe box.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

And people ask why people dislike PoE1 diehards... this kind of post is why.

I talk mechanics, gameplay, etc. You open up with personal attacks. Hmm. Yeah about par for the course of the "NEW customer". I will, however, not return the attack but address your post piece by piece.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

First of all, it's a post focused on PoE1... so why is it here? Why is this post in the PoE2 feedback section?

It is here because it is feedback on the errors of the design in POE2. Note the name, "Path of Exile 2". The game wasn't "Legends of the Vaal" or "Savior of Wraeclast." It was supposed to be a sequel by name but isnt. Even in the opening scene you aren't actually exiled.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Then you're talking about loot being impactful in PoE1... nice. Keep telling yourself that and maybe it will become true one day. How many rare items that you found on the ground have you crafted on in PoE1? How many rare items that you found on the ground are you using on you in endgame? How many rare items do you pick up in PoE1 endgame?

I played SSF exclusively so the answer to all of the above is "quite a lot." I crafted my own gear (because crafting gear is actually possible in POE1, not the slot machine gear in POE2). I would also bet that inn POE2 less than 10% of people actually play SSF and so where do they get gear? They pick up that "impactful piece of gear" off the ground? No. Its unlikely anything on the ground is matching their build. They play trade league and buy it off the market. All of the currency might as well be gold to them. If you played POE2 SSF you would understand this. But I would be willing to bet that you too bought at least some items in your lightning spear build.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Oh I know... at best you're doing the chaos recipe or something with rares. Give me a break. PoE2's loot is not good either at this point in time but to say such delusional things about PoE1 is preposterous. They basically only came to the realization that crafting in PoE1 was cannibalizing any loot drops that weren't currency or unique items and their solution was far from ideal to say the least when they had PROPER examples of how to do it from LE.

POE2 you take every piece of loot and disenchant it to a shard. Really you are arguing that is better than selling to a vendor for the same thing. What a nonsense argument. As far as LE the loot system is interesting. Probably the only super interesting thing there but has its own downfalls.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Then you're talking about PoE1 endgame activities being oh so good... when most of the activities in PoE2 are almost direct ports from PoE1 (which is a huge mistake btw)... but yeah... absolutely amazing take here as well.

So then... if you hate Breach, Ritual, Delirium and Expedition in PoE2... you can't possibly love these in PoE1, can you?

Not a direct copy. Lots of differences and most I have no problem with. It seems like you are the one hating them, not me. You seem to hate anything POE1 related with an irrational anger. Weird. You appear want Path of Exile 2 to have NNOTHING to do with Path of Exile 1 and that is really weird.

That being said if I didn't like any of these systems in POE1 I would just turn it off in the atlas and boost modes I do like. You cant do that in POE2 because they ditched the atlas tree for a new tree that is infinitely worse.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Which begs the question... if you hate these activities in PoE1... how is PoE1 the best ARPG again?

I don't hate them. you do. I dislike certain activities. So I turn them off in the tree. Not sure what you don't get here. I have choices I can make.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

If you hate simulacrum and ultimatum in PoE1, how is it the best ARPG again???

I turn them off in the atlas tree and never see them.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

I can agree with you on one thing, GGG indeed didn't learn what was wrong in PoE1 and ported a lot of the problems from PoE1 directly into PoE2 without much thought.

So you want POE2 to have nothing in common with POE. That would be a bit like making "Star Wars, the Empire Strikes Back" as a romantic comedy set in new york city. Again the game has a 2 in the name. If they had made a different name for the game you might have a point.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Most of the issues that PoE2 has, come from PoE1.

And here is where the irrational hatred comes back. You still haven't specified what YOU want, what YOUR vision is because you don't have one. You just have complaints to throw at the PEOPLE who disagree with you.

Sad.

I really believe you.
It is just that I have not played poe.
For me it would be D2,D3. Excluded poe2 here. To be honest, I have no clue how to adress poe2. I have fun right now, buying upgrades when I need them. Would feel even better to craft my own.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Honestly have no idea how you're comming to a conclusion if poe1 is the best or not.

Endgame progression on this account is.... nonexistent. So any of the things you supposedly like about POE1, you never have reached.

I have several accounts in POE1.

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kosmo_blacksmith#5449 wrote:

I really believe you.
It is just that I have not played poe.
For me it would be D2,D3. Excluded poe2 here. To be honest, I have no clue how to adress poe2. I have fun right now, buying upgrades when I need them. Would feel even better to craft my own.

When / IF they put out a new POE league you should try it out. DM me if you need some help but mostly people in nPOE1 are very helpful. Its not the sewer that POE2 global is.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Not a direct copy. Lots of differences and most I have no problem with. It seems like you are the one hating them, not me. You seem to hate anything POE1 related with an irrational anger. Weird. You appear want Path of Exile 2 to have NNOTHING to do with Path of Exile 1 and that is really weird.

That being said if I didn't like any of these systems in POE1 I would just turn it off in the atlas and boost modes I do like. You cant do that in POE2 because they ditched the atlas tree for a new tree that is infinitely worse.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Which begs the question... if you hate these activities in PoE1... how is PoE1 the best ARPG again?

I don't hate them. you do. I dislike certain activities. So I turn them off in the tree. Not sure what you don't get here. I have choices I can make.

Again, for you to claim that PoE1 is the perfect best ARPG etc the way you glaze it... shouldn't you like pretty much all of them? Ok let's say your Atlas argument is valid, and honestly I think that one is alright, I didn't dislike that in PoE1... if they change the atlas to make that possible would you like PoE2 endgame suddenly??

YES I dislike them, for two reasons.

Firstly... because they are all mechanics that make sense for what PoE1 was... aka a horde screen clear simulator. Ritual, Delirium, Breach, Expedition... all have the same thing in common... they spawn a shitload of monsters for you to evaporate.

Secondly ... because THEY are not new mechanics fit for a new game. They should've come up with completely new endgame mechanics.

You completely dodged the issue with loot PoE1 has which I raised and was admitted to by the devs long ago. Completely ignored the fact that I think the current state of PoE2's itemization and crafting is also bad and proceeded to pretend like I've said it's good or something. My dude, both PoE1 and PoE2's itemizations are bad. I'm not defending one over the other... all I'm saying is that you're talking nonsense when you say PoE1's loot is impactful. Out of PoE1, PoE2 and LE... LE has, hands down, actual impactful loot.

And again your post was largely about PoE1 and how you wish PoE2 was largely just a graphical update for PoE1... so no... your post shouldn't be here... it should be in the PoE1 section.

Nice try with the lightning spear comment by the way, too bad I'm not playing spear. Most I've done with that was to test some interactions.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Again, for you to claim that PoE1 is the perfect best ARPG etc the way you glaze it... shouldn't you like pretty much all of them?

Saying it is the best ARPG right now isn't the same a saying "its absolutely perfect." I claimed the former, not the latter.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Ok let's say your Atlas argument is valid, and honestly I think that one is alright, I didn't dislike that in PoE1... if they change the atlas to make that possible would you like PoE2 endgame suddenly??

No because there is no direction or purpose to the endgame. Its a treadmill for a hamster and a poorly designed one. I actually played more Delve than anything else in the endgame. But there is no real purpose to any direction in POE2 endgame.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

YES I dislike them, for two reasons.

Firstly... because they are all mechanics that make sense for what PoE1 was... aka a horde screen clear simulator. Ritual, Delirium, Breach, Expedition... all have the same thing in common... they spawn a shitload of monsters for you to evaporate.

Secondly ... because THEY are not new mechanics fit for a new game. They should've come up with completely new endgame mechanics.

So you came to a game claiming to be a sequel to another game in Name as well as advertising, but you hated the original game and want the sequel to have nothing to do with the original.

Uhh .... whatever man ... that's just weird.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

You completely dodged the issue with loot PoE1 has which I raised and was admitted to by the devs long ago. Completely ignored the fact that I think the current state of PoE2's itemization and crafting is also bad and proceeded to pretend like I've said it's good or something.

I don't happen to agree with "the devs" (emperor of palpatine theme plays) on this. Clearly their "vision" isn't very well attuned to the actual customers they had inn POE1. If POE2 is their idea of correct itemization then we have FUNDAMENTAL disagreements. And yes, dropping that three socket linked with one red and two greens in the third zone absolutely was impactful as was dropping that rare ring. The itemization in POE1 is so complex you don't understand it yet claim its bad. Again Weird.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

My dude, both PoE1 and PoE2's itemizations are bad. I'm not defending one over the other... all I'm saying is that you're talking nonsense when you say PoE1's loot is impactful. Out of PoE1, PoE2 and LE... LE has, hands down, actual impactful loot.

And you haven't said what would be good itemization. So any of "the devs" trying to hit your target would have a heck of a time even finding it. You haven't stated what you think it should be either because you don't know and you are just throwing stones without having an idea or your vision would not be an ARPG or not feasible.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

And again your post was largely about PoE1 and how you wish PoE2 was largely just a graphical update for PoE1... so no... your post shouldn't be here... it should be in the PoE1 section.

There are a lot of things I would have liked to see in a POE2 sequel. I detail them in another thread. Graphics update for sure but a lot more. Stop making assumptions about people you do not know.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Nice try with the lightning spear comment by the way, too bad I'm not playing spear. Most I've done with that was to test some interactions.

Oh, on the balance of probability I would be right. You like the game now, the only really viable build is lightning spear, you play trade league. So you see it would be likely you are playing lightning spear. At any rate I build my own chars, SSF. RARELY do I play trade league.

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rhorains#6760 wrote:

brother, I too could make a thread about why Diablo II is still the GOAT and has more replay-ability to this day than any other ARPG since its release. it's called nostalgia and not a fruitful thing to hold on to sadly.

I would still claim Diablo 2 remains the ARPG pinnacle to this day - if you can get past the obviously dated mechanics.

It's not just the nostalgia either, they nailed the feeling of campaign progression from Act 1 Normal to Act 4(5) Hell. That's why it feels so replayable.

There was no concept of endgame at the time, so the entire focus was on keeping the playthrough experience engaging. It's a thing that no other ARPG managed to live up to and I don't think it ever will with what the genre has morphed into.

We were lucky we got to play it at a time when it didn't feel ancient.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

No because there is no direction or purpose to the endgame. Its a treadmill for a hamster and a poorly designed one. I actually played more Delve than anything else in the endgame. But there is no real purpose to any direction in POE2 endgame.

So.. PoE2 endgame has no direction... and in PoE1 you played mostly delve which is literally just going down which I found to be the most boring thing ever in PoE1. If you would've at least said Heist I would've given you some credit. Delve is literally extremely comparable to the way mapping is currently.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

So you came to a game claiming to be a sequel to another game in Name as well as advertising, but you hated the original game and want the sequel to have nothing to do with the original.

Uhh .... whatever man ... that's just weird.

When you play a new game, you expect NEW things... how is that so hard to understand? If you buy a sequel to idk.. Darksides 1... do you expect to play the exact same damn thing in Darksides 2 as well ? HECK NO.. you want NEW things. That's how things work USUALLY.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

I don't happen to agree with "the devs" (emperor of palpatine theme plays) on this. Clearly their "vision" isn't very well attuned to the actual customers they had inn POE1. If POE2 is their idea of correct itemization then we have FUNDAMENTAL disagreements. And yes, dropping that three socket linked with one red and two greens in the third zone absolutely was impactful as was dropping that rare ring. The itemization in POE1 is so complex you don't understand it yet claim its bad. Again Weird.

Yeah okay, you're so smart. So what is your vision for rare items that drop? What do you think of the millions of items that were dropping in affliction league? Was that good stuff too fit for the best ARPG ever?

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

My dude, both PoE1 and PoE2's itemizations are bad. I'm not defending one over the other... all I'm saying is that you're talking nonsense when you say PoE1's loot is impactful. Out of PoE1, PoE2 and LE... LE has, hands down, actual impactful loot.

And you haven't said what would be good itemization. So any of "the devs" trying to hit your target would have a heck of a time even finding it. You haven't stated what you think it should be either because you don't know and you are just throwing stones without having an idea or your vision would not be an ARPG or not feasible.

:| I've literally said LE has the answer, is it that hard to read? Something similar to their forging potential needs to be adopted, in a different way but similar. LE makes loot impactful and crafting work with their system.

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

There are a lot of things I would have liked to see in a POE2 sequel. I detail them in another thread. Graphics update for sure but a lot more. Stop making assumptions about people you do not know.

What assumption? You've literally said it yourself. And again the title itself is "Why POE1 is still the best ARPG, Better than LE, POE2, and Diablo 4".... is that an assumption too?!?

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Kraythax#2592 wrote:

Oh, on the balance of probability I would be right. You like the game now, the only really viable build is lightning spear, you play trade league. So you see it would be likely you are playing lightning spear. At any rate I build my own chars, SSF. RARELY do I play trade league.

And at the end you're hitting me with the comedy gold again... saying how I'm assuming things as you proceed to assume a number of things you have no clue about.

First of all, you're assuming I like the game now. Where did I ever say that?
Secondly, you assume again I play lightning spear, which I don't...

By the way, how the heck do you play SSF if you have no idea about the viability of other skills and builds? Lightning spear is not the only viable skill.. did you actually try anything this patch?

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Stryfer#0953 wrote:

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rhorains#6760 wrote:

brother, I too could make a thread about why Diablo II is still the GOAT and has more replay-ability to this day than any other ARPG since its release. it's called nostalgia and not a fruitful thing to hold on to sadly.

I would still claim Diablo 2 remains the ARPG pinnacle to this day - if you can get past the obviously dated mechanics.

It's not just the nostalgia either, they nailed the feeling of campaign progression from Act 1 Normal to Act 4(5) Hell. That's why it feels so replayable.

There was no concept of endgame at the time, so the entire focus was on keeping the playthrough experience engaging. It's a thing that no other ARPG managed to live up to and I don't think it ever will with what the genre has morphed into.

We were lucky we got to play it at a time when it didn't feel ancient.

Cow game was endgame until 1.10 whenever they made cows harder people just started doing cbaals.