Listening to the community too much is what ruined PoE 1 for many of us.
" what do you compare new stuff to to judge that "it´s bad". previous leagues? return of time investment when engaging into archnemesis rares compared to other mobs? other games? imho archnemesis monsters were introduced as a counter for screenclearing oneButtonBuilds. they pressed their button, screen cleared but rares were still there. so archnemesis was bad cause redditoooooors were forced to adapt to more single monster damage or (god forbid the adaptation pressure) IGNORE the mobs cause they´re not worth it. we have a large portion of players who are pestered by anything that challenges them. those casuals are no gamers. --- ggg ever "listened to the community" if reddit managed to pester enough nonThinkingPlayers into leaving the individual leagues by pitchforking the community into a wide protest. give me 2 million dollars and i change reddit into a poe loving community, eventually it`s ever been a ai/bot powered battlefield of companies and their agencies they hired. age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
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" Archnemesis was bad for several reasons. - Many of the mods nuked build diversity - Many of the mods introduced thick walls regarding DPS - Many of the mods were just directly OP - Many of the mods were just directly unfun - Archnemesis league had VERY bad timing, as it released just two leagues after the great purge that was Expedition 3.15 (where they nerfed player power a lot). Players already felt much weaker than before. The idea of reducing screen-wide, zoom-zoom clear? Good idea, but the execution? Not that good. Last edited by MisterFancyPants#7969 on Apr 12, 2025, 8:46:02 AM
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" the biggest challenge in poe has ever been ignoring stuff: low level currency, picking up items, selling alot of junk. archnemesis made you select the rares your build could handle. which was too much of a challenge to those who also can´t ignore low level currency and items and selling. look at all the threads with rsi problems, too much clicking or having to spend a portal to sell the junk age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
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" "Ignoring stuff" ALWAYS(!) feels bad in an ARPG. Diablo 2 had immune monsters, which 'everyone' hated. Designing monster to be ignored by X% of builds is bad design, hands down. "Here is a monster for you that drops loot, but your exact build has to skip it. But hey, it has Shroud Walker, so good luck with that". No thanks. EVERYTHING should be beatable by a good player with a well balanced build. In Archnemesis league, where you created and activated the monsters yourself, aka having agency over your own challenge, it worked OK. Adding them to the core did not. |
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" For one, i doubt many players like to ignore stuff. Part of the point in having an item filter is exactly to make the undesirable stuff invisible to make it easy to ignore. Its not just about making the game playable, theres a reason filterblade have lines dedicated to low level items so the filter can be set even on the story portion of the game It never took a genius to figure you should ignore a super spongy yellow that regens faster than you can damage it, its just a very unfun thing to do and something players that look down on "casuals" like you often forget: poe is not a job, its a videogame. Forcing unfun stuff kills the very point behind poe existence If you dont mind having to ignore stuff thats good for you, but i guarantee the average gamer is bothered by it, its a large part why back on the days ignoring the boss of the map was the meta, tons of people asked for GGG to make killing the boss more profitable, it was not about just having another layer of profit, being optimal meaning skipping the boss was plain not fun AN also wasnt just about sponginess, it also had inescapable mods. Lightning mirage dropped literally on top of us. Speed mods used to increase monster speed by a lot, having a monster outrun you if all you had was 30% on the boots was not uncommon and meant one less portal if you happened to be out of quicksilver charges, and if it had a speed on top of the flask draining mod, well...(yeah, those combos happened semi-regularly, monster used to spawn with a lot of mods on red maps) And the biggest problem AN introduced on kalandra that basically broke the league was the loot goblin, theres absolutely no excuse for THAT one " How cute to think only people like you are true gamers when its the casuals that move the videogame industry You think you are any more of a gamer because you play the heck of one game than a "casual" that only completes the story but does so on every game on the market? I would say average "true dedicated" gamer are the ones that go for 100% completion. Those are usually the ones that are the most bugged about having to ignore monsters |
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" You're right, which makes it even more important that the landscape of gaming has one or two oases that aren't designed for casuals, if even just to provide some form of diversity in the market. This financial pressure to always appeal to everyone is creating a monotonous market where 'most' games are as shallow as a puddle. And we all know that a lot of casual players aren't very good at handling or tackling a game where they aren't the center of balance, but welcomed nonetheless. |
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Archnemesis was bad Vio because it didn't achieve its goals and you've covered it in your own responses.
You need to ignore the redditors and think about the problem in isolation, I would have removed archnemesis as a game designer regardless of whether everyone moaned about them or not. What did it do for the players? Rares became two tiered - modifiers were either irrelevant (which didn't spice up the encounters) or they added significant challenge bordering on time wasting which heavily encouraged skipping the encounter entirely. They also countered builds completely arbitrarily, playing an ignite build? Well I guess you can't kill this rare better just drag it round the map with you. So what was the nail in the coffin? Loot was random, loot goblins are already degenerate dopamine gameplay to hook addicts and without a sophisticated challenge system they don't have a way to scale loot drops based on the difficulty of the encounter so you ended up with extremely challenging rares that gave the player less reward than even an old rare prior to the rework. now skipping is already anathema to ARPG design, if you make content players skip that is a huge red flag you are talking about a game where mindless monster destruction is the goal. Loot incidentally is also why the league itself worked fine, because rewards were known so if you built something challenging you knew the results. So when you tally that up what do you get? Its shit, its shit if reddit says its great, its shit if reddit says its bad, its shit if reddit say nothing i'm sorry but its simply a design fail - I don't fault GGG for attempting it but they needed to be radical with its later implementations for it to have any hope of succeeding as a game addition. Last edited by Draegnarrr#2823 on Apr 12, 2025, 9:54:29 AM
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It's a tough balance. I was here near the beginning as well and it was slower and more purposeful movement (desync issues aside). I won't pretend that there were no fast options though. The Cast on Crit of early POE was a July 4th spectacle and it was quite fun. Flicker strike still existed then. Incinerate was fun with shot gunning. Also, the original ear-raping OG: Molten Strike. I would not describe them as slow...although they were slower than many builds today. They were not POE2/Ruthless slow though.
That being said, early days of POE1 did not have a large player base. Who knows what the financials were but I don't know if it was great. POE1 player base grew as the speed/pace increased giving way for more revenue, more impactful releases and eventually extra space to create a whole new game. And POE2 looks closer to current Ruthless for me than original early days POE1. It's easier on the eyes for sure. But I recall doing Dominus runs in 6 person parties and running multiple accounts with huge increased rarity and quantity to get loot explosions. If there is a POE2 equivalent of that, I don't know it. Admittedly, I ejected from POE2 when it was clearly no fun to play so I might have missed if something like that exists. I think that's the one thing I miss about early POE; going to join public parties to run campaign areas like Aquaduct runs or Ledge runs. Anyway, my point is this: POE2 would never have existed if POE1 didn't move into a faster paced ARPG like game that increased revenue. I'm fine with POE2 existing as a different game other than the lies that led up to it; just don't pretend POE1 early days is what POE2 is now. It's not. Thanks for all the fish! Last edited by Nubatron#4333 on Apr 12, 2025, 10:07:56 AM
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" Really like this as a far less windy summary of what i was trying to say earlier lmao |
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" the game was made for making money when they sold out to tencent and they shouldn't listen to people like you who'd rather the game be 10k peak player count dead game just to feel special that they have the patience to go through multiple websites to get info on things because pressing alt is too casual lmao Last edited by CAPSLOCK_ON#7907 on Apr 12, 2025, 10:35:55 AM
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