Exp Lost On Death doesn't work in 2025.

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KingRajesh#0213 wrote:

Losing XP doesn't make me want to go again.

It makes me want to turn the game off.

Then turn it off. Uninstall.
GGG have metrics, you know. They see how many players quit and don't return after dying in maps.
XP penalty existing for so long most likely means that it isn't a huge factor in player retention.

I felt like losing both the map and XP was a bit brutal but there needs to be a penalty for dying, and a meaningful one just to keep things interesting and have make it a stake.

IMO, with the upcoming changes to the portals it'll bring it to a level I feel like it will be in the "sweet spot".

Just my opinion

Exp loss on death is fine, there needs to be some kind of penalty otherwise the progression feels less "meaningful"

Reached lvl100 before just by mapping on off-meta build in poe1, would have been way less "epic" to reach without xp penalty

Removing exp loss on death sounds pretty boring from leveling perspective

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ConcreteMittens#4695 wrote:

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KingRajesh#0213 wrote:

Losing XP doesn't make me want to go again.

It makes me want to turn the game off.

Then turn it off. Uninstall.
GGG have metrics, you know. They see how many players quit and don't return after dying in maps.
XP penalty existing for so long most likely means that it isn't a huge factor in player retention.

The metrics they have are mostly from the POE1 GGG portal players, right?
The GGG portal players/community have played with it since Day 1, it's normal.

Here are their POE2 Player retention Metrics on steam

All Time Peak 578,000 players - Currently 15,000 players

Those 500k+ left for ALL SORTS of reasons, but the death penalty contributes a large percentage to player fatigue (replay ability), in my opinion.

Just add stuff together, Death Penalty, Map Sustain, Broken Economy, Poor Crafting RNG. All these things add to player fatigue and wanting to log out.

2.0 may have fixed Map Sustain, Economy (reset) and crafting with changes.

If the above issues are improved, then the Death Penalty will rise to the top of player complaints when it comes to fatigue and wanting to log out.

The current 15K players still playing are playing regardless of Death Penalty and every other current issue. That is their hardcore base (on steam), right?

Lets also state (for the sake of it) that the (unknown number) players from the GGG portal are also fine with the death penalty.

What about the 500k+ from steam? Does GGG want to try and retain all of them?

This time around the Death Penalty may get a lot more attention from that steam player base that are not used to having it in a game, like me. If they want to retain the large steam player base, they may need to remove it.

I'm not sure if this will be a GGG decision or a Ten Cent Business decision.
The shop would sell more stuff if you can keep the large majority for longer.

In my opinion.

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FipsDieGrille#2655 wrote:

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tarloch#1873 wrote:

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FipsDieGrille#2655 wrote:

You really like to say strawman but unfortunately you use it wrong :D

most times you use it when i just say my opinion.

I have not much more to reply though unfortunately. It seems you didnt get my points most of the time. But hey it is okay, you can have your opinion. I think it is very unlikely though that xp loss will ever be removed and i am quite happy about.

Have a good day

Your opinions all seem to me to be skill based, which the game clearly is not. It is gear based. Nor difficult, its a timesink

You are trying to deflect from the point i was making about the XP lose and the change to boss fights

Basically introduding this "skill issue" narrative again and again, then a risk/reward concept...which is now largely removed from boss fights

Did you even read my post? i asked for a level playing field and wanted to know why players such as yourself were ok with no XP lose in a boss fight yet ok for it to happen in mapping.

Its a simple question and doesnt really need a convoluted answer. why is one ok but the other not?

If you read my posts you will see my position on the matter

Now your last post once again did not address any of my points and deflected to the whole strawman use..and ended with a statement

I'm sure you know what you were doing, wonder how we could define that

Why do i get the impression that in these forums, many times it feels like you are trying to reason with members of a cult

Good day to you sir

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Rockhumper#1211 wrote:

I felt like losing both the map and XP was a bit brutal but there needs to be a penalty for dying, and a meaningful one just to keep things interesting and have make it a stake.

IMO, with the upcoming changes to the portals it'll bring it to a level I feel like it will be in the "sweet spot".

Just my opinion

meaningful in what degree? thats the issue isnt it.

is it meaningful to lose the xp just on the map you died in? or a flat rate as we have now

also theres the lose of items used to open/juice the map and the time it took to acquire them. isnt that also meaningful?

Lets agree any of those are meaningful. the issue is to what degree should that meaningful death be. one of above? or all of the above? surely a compromise is needed

Slight aside, if the "gitgud" brigade rarely die because they are so skillful why should it matter to them if they remove/adjust the death penalty?
Clearly it isnt affecting them that much so why should they care if less "skillful" players dont get punished as bad.
Its not a compedative game so why does it matter

As for the portal system well it could really highlight the xp lose, imagine dying 3x in a map with 3 mods on it...thats 30% xp gone
now imagine someone dying 6x on a normal map
Unless theres a cap on the XP lose GGG are just creating more problems

The downside is strictly limited. You can't lose more than 100% exp remaining.
Farm, get stronger and play safe to lvl up

yes i know but thats not really an answer is it, do you think less dedicated players will stick around if they are losing a huge chunk of xp

less players less revenue less resources to develope the game

i see the whole system as flawed from a long term prospective

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meaningful in what degree? thats the issue isnt it.

is it meaningful to lose the xp just on the map you died in? or a flat rate as we have now

also theres the lose of items used to open/juice the map and the time it took to acquire them. isnt that also meaningful?

Lets agree any of those are meaningful. the issue is to what degree should that meaningful death be. one of above? or all of the above? surely a compromise is needed

Slight aside, if the "gitgud" brigade rarely die because they are so skillful why should it matter to them if they remove/adjust the death penalty?
Clearly it isnt affecting them that much so why should they care if less "skillful" players dont get punished as bad.
Its not a compedative game so why does it matter

As for the portal system well it could really highlight the xp lose, imagine dying 3x in a map with 3 mods on it...thats 30% xp gone
now imagine someone dying 6x on a normal map
Unless theres a cap on the XP lose GGG are just creating more problems

Meaningful means you cant just throw your body at a problem and still get the xp from it after using all your portals.

If you are throwing items to juice your maps and you get bagged up by the mobs in the map thats your own damn fault. juice = harder and more rewarding. you dont get the rewards without taking on the risk of the content being harder and "losing out" on those rewards

The compromise is being found, no xp loss on pinnacle bosses is good and they are making less "juiced" content have more portals so you dont lose your maps/currency drops on those maps as often. The compromise isnt going to your side and just removing all penalty from death cause you are frustrated.

Third point is just dumb, its the same reason that anyone cant just do the hardest content in other games just because they want to, you cant just roll into a mythic raid in wow and expect to clear it, you cant roll up to Melania and expect to 1 shot her right after you open the game, there is a sense of pride to a veteran playing hitting 100 because it is hard to do, you have to invest time, currency, and game knowledge into getting there.

If you are dying that often in low mod or white maps the XP penalty is the least of your worries, your build is terrible and you might need to go back to the drawing board. A couple extra passive points isnt going to fix a build that is dying 6 times in white maps.

The XP loss felt on regular deaths is only really punishing after about lvl 95. One could argue that the final 5 or so passive points are only obtainable by people that don't die, which doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.