Charge removal and charge steal should be changed to just remove one charge

Yea I mean you are convinced your build is as good as it can get and only built the way you built it.

Pretty common on the forums. Shame but you do you.


I guess continue struggling with "remove charges" mod that randomly shows up on mobs.


6 of my characters dont and they all use endurance charges for damage/defense.


Good luck!

"

Sjatar#1090 wrote:

It's very punishing that one random monster mod can lower a character mitigation by so much.

In my case at 11 endurance charges this mod represents 78% more physical and elemental damage taken.

It's also pretty much impossible to detect when the charges have been removed when fighting as you most often then not does not keep track of the swirly balls around you or hear the little charge removed sound.

It would be much better if this mod could not randomly appear and only stay as a map mod and on tormented spirits. Or if it would not remove all charges on hit, maybe just 1 instead.

Edit: to clarify I mean the random monster modifier "remove charges on hit" and not the map modifier steal chargers.

Never tried it since I hadn´t issues with this mod, but try the charge mastery " nearby enemies cannot gain charges". There will be still few outcomes where a rare range monster could steal it, but its worth trying.

@OP: in almost every post in this thread, you keep claiming that this mod is "beyond the norm". And you keep getting told that your "norm" is what is incorrect. This is essential to understanding the problem with this thread.

What exactly is this "norm" you are talking about in terms of punishing rare mob mods? Because.....literally every single one of them has varying degrees of punishment depending on YOUR build.

It is your job, pretty much your ONLY job as a PvE character, to stay alive and/or overcome game obstacles. As such....you need to know what your weaknesses are and how to counter them.

You claim that you can't hear the loss of charges sound, or don't see the icon disappear......if your character is pretty goddamn reliant on charges then YOU HAVE TO focus on those things. YOU need to change, not the game.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

@OP: in almost every post in this thread, you keep claiming that this mod is "beyond the norm". And you keep getting told that your "norm" is what is incorrect. This is essential to understanding the problem with this thread.

What exactly is this "norm" you are talking about in terms of punishing rare mob mods? Because.....literally every single one of them has varying degrees of punishment depending on YOUR build.

It is your job, pretty much your ONLY job as a PvE character, to stay alive and/or overcome game obstacles. As such....you need to know what your weaknesses are and how to counter them.

You claim that you can't hear the loss of charges sound, or don't see the icon disappear......if your character is pretty goddamn reliant on charges then YOU HAVE TO focus on those things. YOU need to change, not the game.

It's hard to find equivalent mods to compare with. But if we compare to some basic blue monster mods like hasted which is 30% inc attack/cast speed, it is 30% more damage equivalently. We also have crit mods which are 40% more damage, can completely counter with widely accessible stats. Extra ele damage mods are 25% more damage etc.

These are just a damage increase for the monster with the mod though. Remove charges is a global debuff equivalent where everything deals more damage if charges are removed.

If we take the example of being low life and being cursed with punishment that is a 140% more damage multi from all sources. But you need to not have any reduced curse effect, also stand in the relatively visible curse aoe and be low life. It is also only present on rare monsters, while remove charges exists on both magic and rare monsters.

If you have a example of a blue monster modifier that is a global debuff at the same efficacy I'd like to know. I cannot find a similar example. As such I call it out of norm or a outlier.

You might also have misunderstood. This is more about magic monsters getting the modifier and not rare monsters. I'd be way more okey if only rare monsters could get remove charges as it's possible to full dodge all attacks from a rare. Not so much from magic packs.

There is currently only two ways to counter remove charges. It is by using ralakesh or having enough minimum charges. One of these are not possible for discharge characters and both are extremely expensive. Ralakesh is about 30 div and there is not even a single grand spectrum for min end charges on HC trade. Which is the only way to get 10+ minimum charges.

I did take a character heavily using charges to 98 in HC. I think I know my weaknesses and how to counter them. The problem here is that there is no reasonable counter, and sadly specifically for my build no counter for all the effects of the mod.

"

TayPoE#6379 wrote:

Never tried it since I hadn´t issues with this mod, but try the charge mastery " nearby enemies cannot gain charges". There will be still few outcomes where a rare range monster could steal it, but its worth trying.

The mod I'm more concern about is remove charges which does not steal charges for the enemy. Even if a enemy tries to steal charges I don't think hindering them from gaining would prevent the charges from being removed from the player.

Steal charges is also way more rare and only exists as a map mod (not a problem IMO as you can fully avoid it) and from thief ghost. Which is a rare ghost in itself and can be kinda negated while mapping with the keystone "speaker of the dead".

Thanks for the suggestion though but sadly would not help!

"

Sjatar#1090 wrote:

It's hard to find equivalent mods to compare with.

Really?

1) Mana Siphon
2) Lightning Tower thingy
3) Flask Charge removal
4) Anything chaos
5) nearly every on-death effect
6) Overwhelm
7) Leech/Regen

That is just a few off the top of my head without even looking at a full list. Each and every one has exactly the same strength of "effect" on builds heavily reliant on specific things, and even some more generalized "screw everyone" things.

Your focus, like your build, is too narrow.


If your build is entirely reliant on charges, such as discharge and flicker strike builds, then YOU need to figure out how to overcome that "rare" rare monster. Can you have a weapon swap that gives you charges? Can you run away, gain charges, run back? Can you passively gain charges while kiting? There are MANY solutions to the problem that you haven't even explored. As a veteran, these are things you need to think about in the build phase of your build: what are the potential counters and how can I address them? There is almost always a solution, usually more than one.

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"

Sjatar#1090 wrote:

It's hard to find equivalent mods to compare with.

Really?

1) Mana Siphon
2) Lightning Tower thingy
3) Flask Charge removal
4) Anything chaos
5) nearly every on-death effect
6) Overwhelm
7) Leech/Regen

That is just a few off the top of my head without even looking at a full list. Each and every one has exactly the same strength of "effect" on builds heavily reliant on specific things, and even some more generalized "screw everyone" things.

Your focus, like your build, is too narrow.


If your build is entirely reliant on charges, such as discharge and flicker strike builds, then YOU need to figure out how to overcome that "rare" rare monster. Can you have a weapon swap that gives you charges? Can you run away, gain charges, run back? Can you passively gain charges while kiting? There are MANY solutions to the problem that you haven't even explored. As a veteran, these are things you need to think about in the build phase of your build: what are the potential counters and how can I address them? There is almost always a solution, usually more than one.

Firstly it's not on rare monsters only, I'd be okey if it was on only rare monsters as I have stated in this thread. It's on both rare and magic monsters at the same efficacy.

- Mana siphoner, is very easy to see, very easy to dodge, is only on rare monsters.

- Lightning tower is only on rare monsters and it's easy to dodge. Got a long windup and very flashy.

- Flask charge removal is close. But it's only rare monsters and does not instantly remove flask effects. There was a previous mod that did that nullifier and drought mods. But both have been removed.

- Anything chaos. Just get chaos res? It's really easy to mitigate.

- On-death effects is something a lot of people are complaining about. I myself don't have a issue with it.

- Overwhelm is only if you choose to interact with it. It's very easy to avoid.

- Leech/Regen there is plenty, abundant amounts, of enemies have less recovery nodes and mods and items.

I hope you understand that I did consider most mods in the game when I answered your comment and I still stand that it's hard to find equivalent mods. Except for the few I brought up.

I am lvl 99 with this build in HC. I have killed many of the end game bosses and been running exclusively T16 maps for a while now. I have found ways of countering it. The best ways are boring, which is most of the time logging out. In rare cases I have skipped a map due to it. I don't think you argue in good faith if you are accusing me of not exploring possibilities to alleviate this issue. I love poe because of the endless possibilities it gives for character creation. I have made interesting builds for about 10 years, I hope I can have enough credibility to argue these points at this time.

I can promise you that if there was a fun and good solution, I would not have this opinion.

Build your character different, dont solely rely on endurance charges.

Thats the solution.

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Build your character different, dont solely rely on endurance charges.

Thats the solution.

I'm sorry man. It feels you are arguing a point I'm not trying to defend.

Well, while endurance charges go poof mod might be unpleasant, I think there are worse, like NO REGEN mod. If you rely on regen, then such map is a no go for u for sure.

In fact, it's quite brutal that it disables life, mana and es regen all at the same time... I think it could be divided into 3 separate parts. It was so uncool to throw away juicy corrupted t16 maps due to this.

In any case, poe has some nasty shit, I agree. It always did.