Charge removal and charge steal should be changed to just remove one charge

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

1) This 78 number you keep throwing out is specific to you, its not universal
2) The ammount of endurance charges we are currently getting in phrecia likely wont be the norm (ancestral commander, extra 3 horray look at us yipee....)
3) This damage taken, is only representative of a single built character. A character using endurance charges. (not all builds use endurance charges, or even charges at all)

The counter point is that the only way this mod is a problem on the level you describe, is under a circumstance that a player made it happen.

IE: Your character.


The counter point I already listed above was

I have made now 6 characters with endurance charges as a defense they have.
Yet for some reason (the ones I listed in a prveious post), I dont struggle with magic mobs, or rare mobs on the off chance they get the mods in maps/delve.

But somehow (as seen on on your phrecia POB), you do. To the point that you have to exit the map (your words).

So:
1)Ask yourself why this is the case
2)Be honest with yourself

And youll understand why this mod randomly appearing, regardless of its strength, on a mob is fine.

In the case of having 8 endurance charges it represents 47% more damage. Which I guess is more representative. This is still way beyond norm for a monster modifier. I think I would bring up any mod that represents this big of a jump in damage, even if the build it happens on is niche.

In the case of old nullifier it pretty much removed pathfinder as a hardcore viable build as it would remove flask effects on hit. Old phys overwhelm in archnem would ignore 100% of your phys mit, which made pretty much all builds have most phys mit in the form of damage taken as.

Previously drought monsters would remove all charges on hit, which I think was a bug tbf. But it was changed to what we have today where it prevents flask charges and removes flask charges over time.

Again I'm making this thread yes because my build is heavily affects by this mod, but that does not make the point less valid. If somebody being affected by a thing cannot talk about the thing affecting them, that be super silly. I understand you want to argue I am biased, but I don't think I have been unreasonable in my arguments.

Breachestones can apparently get a random modifier which says "10% chance to remove chargers on hit". As this is uncontrollable I put it in the same category as the monster modifier. It would be nice if this would only remove a single charge on hit or not be able to roll at all! :3

No fix your build.

Also how would remove one charge work when 50 of the mobs have it?

You mean the mod can only remove a single charge ever?


So you want a mod to do nothing at all then?


Fix your build

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

No fix your build.

Also how would remove one charge work when 50 of the mobs have it?

You mean the mod can only remove a single charge ever?


So you want a mod to do nothing at all then?


Fix your build

How would you fix my build? I'm not sure how I'd do that without changing the skill and the entire premise of the build itself.

It works as you think it does. If you do indeed get hit 50 times it removes 50 charges. But I think it more comes down to a skill issue rather then a imbalanced mod if you do get hit so many times you lose all the charges, if it only removes one charge per hit. Even in a large pack of monsters the total number of hits is quite low, except for certain monster types. It allows you more time to react and the damage spike is not so high.

I'm sorry if my stance aggravate you. I really don't see this feedback as unreasonable. It's something the devs have to decide on. I'll survive either way I guess :P

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

No fix your build.

Also how would remove one charge work when 50 of the mobs have it?

You mean the mod can only remove a single charge ever?


So you want a mod to do nothing at all then?


Fix your build

How would you fix my build? I'm not sure how I'd do that without changing the skill and the entire premise of the build itself.

Alright you asked:

Your Phrecia idea character:


1)Scale a defense other than endurance charges.

•you have armor as your main defense and are not scaling it at all and even have this node which you are utilizing very poorly.


PDR on your chest, at least 3k armour on it as well.

You have multiple nodes all over the tree, and in your ascendancy for armour.

Scale it

2) Fix your resist/stats on your gear, you shouldnt need to grab all these stats and resist nodes all over your tree.


I get you are using 2x kaoms, but maybe drop one or both honestly. The ammount of character points youd free up so you can get res/stats would be better than both endurance charges they provide by a mile.



3) You are focusing on life regen nodes a bit too much for this idea you have. This build doesnt even reach several thousand let alone 2k. Would drop all these nodes for something else on the tree entirely

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

No fix your build.

Also how would remove one charge work when 50 of the mobs have it?

You mean the mod can only remove a single charge ever?


So you want a mod to do nothing at all then?


Fix your build

How would you fix my build? I'm not sure how I'd do that without changing the skill and the entire premise of the build itself.

Alright you asked:

Your Phrecia idea character:


1)Scale a defense other than endurance charges.

•you have armor as your main defense and are not scaling it at all and even have this node which you are utilizing very poorly.

Spoiler

PDR on your chest, at least 3k armour on it as well.

You have multiple nodes all over the tree, and in your ascendancy for armour.

Scale it

2) Fix your resist/stats on your gear, you shouldnt need to grab all these stats and resist nodes all over your tree.

Spoiler

I get you are using 2x kaoms, but maybe drop one or both honestly. The ammount of character points youd free up so you can get res/stats would be better than both endurance charges they provide by a mile.



3) You are focusing on life regen nodes a bit too much for this idea you have. This build doesnt even reach several thousand let alone 2k. Would drop all these nodes for something else on the tree entirely

Spoiler

I do need to get a better chest piece! It's probably what I will focus on crafting next.

But the rest of the changes would break the build.

I do not take the resistances to get resistances. They are all in range of the unique jewel red dream. Which gives endurance charges on kill.

When I summon skeletons they use my flasks (mothers embrace) which are all writhing jars. These spawn worms which I then kill with discharge. Because I have close to 80% chance to gain endurance charge on kill I will get all charges I spent on discharge back instantly.

Because it's a discharge build there is no point in building the character around the assumption I don't have charges, as I have bigger issues if I don't have them. So removing kaom's sign would result in 15% less damage and 15% more damage taken.

There is no threshold on when regen becomes good or not. I invest into regen as there is little else to invest into. I might change some of these nodes now that I have 90% max fire and RF deals very little damage anymore.

You dont need red dream in any universe for this build.

I wouldnt rely on that jewel for endurance charges ever. You have enduring cry, use it. Quality it as well for gods sake.



With the amount of points you could get from freeing up all these useless regen/resist nodes that dont even give you more than a few hundred regen, youd beable to reach





And yes these regen nodes are all bad, you are barely getting a few hundred from them. These are not for builds like this. Its your choice to swear by it, and its going to continue to hold this build back. On so many points in place of power.


You're wasting like ... I dont even know... 15-18 points? That you could make this entire build better, because you want a few hundred regen, stats/res locked on your tree that could be elsewhere, and .... 2 endurance charges on rings.


Again you asked how to fix the build.



Honestly, I would annoint the endurance charge on kill node and maybe remove the flask annoint, I am watching your vods and you are oversustaining flask charges. I dont think you need replenishing remedies at all

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

You dont need red dream in any universe for this build.

I wouldnt rely on that jewel for endurance charges ever. You have enduring cry, use it. Quality it as well for gods sake.



With the amount of points you could get from freeing up all these useless regen/resist nodes that dont even give you more than a few hundred regen, youd beable to reach





And yes these regen nodes are all bad, you are barely getting a few hundred from them. These are not for builds like this. Its your choice to swear by it, and its going to continue to hold this build back. On so many points in place of power.


You're wasting like ... I dont even know... 15-18 points? That you could make this entire build better, because you want a few hundred regen, stats/res locked on your tree that could be elsewhere, and .... 2 endurance charges on rings.


Again you asked how to fix the build.



Honestly, I would annoint the endurance charge on kill node and maybe remove the flask annoint, I am watching your vods and you are oversustaining flask charges. I dont think you need replenishing remedies at all

Enduring cry is way to slow and also does not give enough charges to effectively feed discharge. There is other setups that use volls devotions and Farrul's Fur to sustain frenzy/power and endurance charges. But this is more for a pure hit based discharge. I want to deal damage with herald of ash.

I gain 11 flask charges every 3 seconds. Each cast of skeletons consume 20 charges, so that is about one cast of skeletons every 6 seconds. Herald of ash lasts for 7 seconds. So that is a tiny bit over sustained but pretty much perfect. Losing the anoint would take me down to ~10 seconds per skeleton cast. Which gives me just 2 seconds headroom to keep up charges as they are 12 seconds and I would effectively lose 30% damage as I cannot sustain HoA on a single target.

I kill 20 worms each skeleton cast at 84% chance to get a endurance charge on kill. This according to a cumulative binomial distribution gives me a 99.7% chance of getting 12 charges. If this is lowered to even 60% the chance plummets to 59.5% chance to get 12 charges in 20 kills. At 50% there is a 25% chance of getting 12 charges back. So no I cannot remove any of the resistance nodes and the 8% on unyielding is not at all enough to replace red dream.

Red dream is the only way to get this many endurance charges on kill. There is no other way.

Here is a link to the equation used: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i2d=true&i=Sum%5BDivide%5B20!%2Cn!*%5C(40)20-n%5C(41)!%5D*Power%5Bp%2Cn%5D*Power%5B%5C(40)1-p%5C(41)%2C%5C(40)20-n%5C(41)%5D%2C%7Bn%2C12%2C20%7D%5D%5C(44)%20p%20%3D%200.84

p is the chance of getting endurance charges on kill, and n is the number of charges you want.

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Sjatar#1090 wrote:

equations

Try it out and do testing rather than relying on an equation for your build.


Best advice you could probably get.



Wolframalpha is something you use to cheat/understand equations for math problems in school. Not playing poe. They are a tool not a reality.




Actual play and what happens>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 1000

Equations and their results (many of which are situational/incorrect/or misleading)


You say this is an experiment you want to do.

So experiment.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

"

Sjatar#1090 wrote:

equations

Try it out and do testing rather than relying on an equation for your build.


Best advice you could probably get.



Wolframalpha is something you use to cheat/understand equations for math problems in school. Not playing poe. They are a tool not a reality.




Actual play and what happens>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 1000

Equations and their results (many of which are situational/incorrect/or misleading)


You say this is an experiment you want to do.

So experiment.

[Removed by Support]

The equation match reality. If I remove some of the endurance charge on kill I do not get all my charges back. This build was made from in game testing and I did not use this equation before my comment here. I only typed out the equation for my response as I thought it could help you understand how it scales.

I have used wolfram and matlab scripts extensively to optimize builds in poe. Testing is important to verify a hypothesis, it's insulting you assume I don't do this.

I'm baffled you say wolfram is used to cheat math problems in school. It's really not that powerful, but I guess it could be used to cheat if you just have simplification problems. Going to use Desmos next time :P