A question for the community regarding GGG's Vision for POE2.

Here's a simple question but I feel it is a massive elephant in the room we should talk about: Should players have the ability to trivialize ALL content with max gear (ie: 300+div Builds not broken 1Div mechanics that glitch the game) with 30 second or less boss fights? Or should we all be capped out at 2-5 minute boss fights, even with max best in slot gear/rolls (forced phases, stupid HP, etc) so that we can experience the whole vision GGG has for their boss fights/combat?

I feel this is where we have the most friction with GGG as a community. what does this game want to be? what do we want it to be?

I see the biggest issue is the current playerbase mindset. One thing for sure that will be complained about after EA is over, is balance. Players expecting their builds to remain safe in EA will be the greatest issue the Devs face. How many ARPG games have we all played that has serious balance issues? The Devs want to fix them now, and at the rate they are going to fix them because of the players, we will only get a few passes before EA is over. It will make it impossible to get it even close, if we can only expect 2 balance patches in all of EA.

I think you might have misunderstood me. I mean should any build with enough investment and time be able to trivialize content. Not just the 2-3 busted builds from every league. We all get balance patches, but this is a question of overall vision. Is this a power fantasy or is this dark souls? Thats what I'm asking.

Can't have that without balance though. I think you misunderstand the importance of balance, as it even affects what you are insisting is important. You can't have all the classes balanced out to trivialize endgame equally without it. You can't have all the classes balanced out to make the game more challenging in endgame either without it. It doesn't matter what they consider the overall vision to be, without balance, the outcome will just be meta slammers.

Ok, so you would rather everyone have a lets just say 2-3 minute boss fight at max gear than to be able to shred the boss in 10 seconds with max gear? I'm Just gathering the communities takes on this question. I have my own opinion but its just that, an opinion.

"

PowderD#2198 wrote:

Ok, so you would rather everyone have a lets just say 2-3 minute boss fight at max gear than to be able to shred the boss in 10 seconds with max gear? I'm Just gathering the communities takes on this question. I have my own opinion but its just that, an opinion.

I personally don't care either way. I like blasting, and I like slow play. Either would be fine. It's clear that the slow play part is gone, and it's not coming back. It's easy to see because the devs have taken the standpoint of balance will only come with seasons. They are fearful of the part of the playerbase that, even though they'll cry that balance is an issue, don't want their builds nerfed while the game is in EA.

I think there are levels and it's not an either or thing.

Most bosses and elite mobs should be able to be deleted by end game tier build/gear.

There should be a mid-top tier where standard players are challenged. It shouldnt be a quick fight but it also isnt a half hour long battle. And stop with the party tricks and cheap shots. Just make the mechanics fair but firm. Allow players to come in with good resists and reasonable DPS and if they take too many hits they die. One shot mechanics, timers, huge telegraphed attacks you have to do special timing to avoid death on are just cheap tricks. Most players want to feel like a good battle is a back and forth affair where they didnt just narrowly avoid death constantly and run for their life from cheating bastard tactics. These are the fights that build the mid tier players toward the end tier.

Then there should be a pinnacle top range that the grinders can shoot for. None of these fights should be easy and they should be absolute gear/skill checks.

Put them all in one dungeon and allow the players to work toward progressing on completing the dungeon, allowing for failure and retrying.

There's a whole formula that already exists and is wildly successful proving this method in MMO's, and it blows my mind that we dont have anything resembling this in ARPG's. Sometimes it feels like this format of game is made for people who have short attention spans and cant cope with the challenge of spending time learning a fight or phases or anything. It's just boom boom boom loot pinata. I get that is fun, but there can be layers to this stuff too.

Short answer: Yes

The problem however is that getting said gear is way too easy. You can play for 2 days (no lifing it ofc) and you can have top gear. That's just bad design.

This question doesn't make any sense regarding balance : if a finalized build with 300 div gear must spent 3 minutes to killing a boss , a WIP build with 300 ex gear will need 30 minutes to kill that same boss .

Due to the above being nonsensical the only two well known alternatives to make Boss fights longer when playing broken builds are :

1) more invulnerability phases to make worthless these 10's millions of DPS you could generate ... but there's too much of that in the game already ( special mention to the Skeleton Golem who got a 20 seconds invul phase ) and GGG added more of that crap weeks ago because yeah GGG was once again very salty to see the top RMT builds used by some streamers could instakill Arbiter & bypass his tedious dodge or die phases ... so enough with that stupid "can't kill me lol" mechanic already , especially when it is mixed with this meta full of dodge or die phases . So no i don't want more of that , and BTW these invul phases nerf big time non-meta builds relying on Ailments buildup .

2) remove the ceiling on difficulty which is the Diablo solution AFAIK / remember , and the solution a lot of ARPGs usually rely on to have some endgame challenge when you play cheesy stuff . For example Tier XVI maps would no longer be the max because there would be no "max" : Tier XXXVI maps with Bosses having 2 billions HP ? Here you go . Which means MF would be likely tied to Maps tier directly to give a carrot on a stick to these ultra extremely hard maps ... which means everyone would then bitch here about "how unfair it is for Sparks builds being able to farm juiced Breach on XXXVI maps" . So bad option too , we're back at square 1 .

TLDR = a balanced endgame for everyone where broken cheesy builds doesn't make a mockery of the hardest content but the lame builds doesn't struggle heavily in return ? Don't see how it's feasible . Nor do i see why it should be the aim : such a game got to have a "finish line" ... you easily farm the hardest content with your min-maxed build ? Good for you , job done , time to reroll into another character/build or just wait for next content/season .

Or maybe some other solution is to making the top gear not having such absurd power that they can one shot or 3 mins bosses.

Give the players something else to chase, like cosmetic or titles. There're plenty of other games that retain players engagement without having absurd power creep.