If melee is so hard to design, why does Barbarian feel great in every single Diablo game?

I like warrior. I like it's speed, move set and tactical set.

I don't like to look like an idiot in front of other classes.
I don't that mess on a screen. On campaign warrior just perfect to me.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

Those absurd buffs are just an indication of how much mechanical disadvantage and overbearing opportunity cost melee had in POE1. In other words: how embarrassingly far from hitting the target they were for 12 years.

You almost proved that "negative attack speed multiplier" was a right way to go by using negative value(evaluation) to imply a positive value (because you are not wrong at least for me.)

This can be explained in a plain logical context.

In "linear system (analysis)" or "bistable (bipolar) mechanism", we can only assume straight lines or circular diagrams (it has the boundary, a specific shape, and no specific start/end point).

If we focus on any part of a circular diagram, it must have "negative/positive slope (multiplier)" or "bistable (bipolar) mechanism" to provide options.

Therefore, we have to add exceptions to avoid contradictions, "(viable) build", "one shot" or "some degree of immortality" in the context of this topic.

This can be expressed as "the system that postpones the fatal issues". (There MUST be fatal issues to postpone.)

It's the skill delays that cause the problems and not so much maces.

Because slams are not (significantly) affected by IAS, it's basically a per attack model.

Which is ok. Like leap slam and stampede work pretty well now.

Something like sunder however has a long animation and a long delay meaning no one should use it.

And it's not just melee, I think it's a generalized choice of players to avoid skills that have delays.

I think melee is fine in POE 2, it just isn't on the same level as other classes due to the damage being bad and reliant on weapons.

melee bad
also monk - most OP build in game lol

Barbarian in d2 felt like shit but whatever. Barb in d3 and d4 felt great cuz every class was practically immortal and the game is in an entire different design than poe ever will be - thankfully.

best melee feeling in an arpg is actually last league in poe 1, felt great but its designed very different compared to poe 2 sadly. Poe 2 think its dark souls while its not, u will never make dark souls while 150 mobs floods ur screen and ur "dodge" button practically becomes useless hence they should make poe 2 more like poe 1.

Just draw damage areas of the floor in red around mobs and bosses.

So a boss has a red circle around it in the area of its AOE
mobs might have cones, or rings , or dots of damage.
picture them all in red, glowing on the floor, all the places an enemy can attack.

A melee class is going to go stand in the middle of all that red.
They are going to stay in it, in fact most of their attack range demands they be in it in order to connect with their targets.

In fact being surrounded is often the maximum means of conserving mana, delivering large AOE from the center of an enemy ball.

Now, when people say they dont understand why melee has issues, its because when playing ranges you are not interacting with 60% of the game.

Floor effect
Enemy explosions
Volatile plans under your feet.
Temporal bubble
Chain Stun
Freeze becasue you need to be in the cone range.

Electric clones running at you who spawn as you hit from 1 foot away.

Being frozen in exactly the worst possible positions, surrounded.

Fighting enemies with regeneration becasue your damage is a spike as you need to stop to dodge and evade AOE range, you often cannot engage long enough to put an enemy away.

Melee should have specific skills, and in this instance it does make sense to link it to range or weapon type to mitigate this requirement.

5% increase to armor for every enemy within x meters, with x expanding with investment.

mitigation to the effect the fighter is standing in, with investment immunity.


Porximity bonus to defense, armor in particular, stronger from close range.
Defense bonus on melee weapons
Tree passives to nullify ground effect or corpse explosion and similar effects.

They should be at their most powerful and most dangerous when surrounded by mobs wailing away covered in fire and wading though poison puddles ...
Frickin warrior !!!!!!

Their nemesis, a solitary archer in an open grassy field.....

Except d3 and d4.
Barb in d3 had one working build for like 20 seasons

warrior is done nice, it's the lategame which is tuned into zoomfest: oneshots, broken op zoom builds, monster density and +speed mods.

Devs should cut broken staff down 10x times.

Monks is not mellee, those warriors who explode screens are not real mellee also. There is no friction/fight/action/any interaction between character and monsters, just onesided oneshots.

"

Swdan#2149 wrote:

Except d3 and d4.
Barb in d3 had one working build for like 20 seasons

i guess the whole 2 weeks i spent there i hit the peak game play then cuz ww barb in d3 was immortal

Warrior is fine. Maybe he is the worst class, but he is FAR from being unplayable.
Maces even, are not THAT bad. It has several skills that actually work pretty well. I played a titan STR/INT hybrid all the way from the start. My main problem was that I was incredibly slow compared to other classes, but eventually I picked up speed when my knowled of the game increased.
The problem with this endless discussion is that when some people say warrior, they are actually talking about "2 handed mace, pure armor, with all the slow attack passives" as if that is the only way to play warrior. And they swear that no other way to build warrior is viable. And that is where you hear nonsenses like basic strike being the best a warrior has.
Compared for example, to fire magic, maces is in a much better position. Fire magic damage is very low, making ignite kind of suck, it has a lot of bugged interactions, and design problems.
All weapon/magic skills have things that are just too weak, or too slow or bugged or whatever, and for maces, 2 handed is on the too slow category.
One handed with shield works so well that you can clear any map, very fast, using mostly resonating shield and boneshatter. Ancestral totem is very strong with pretty much no investment. And everyone knows the one shotting potential of hammer of the gods.