Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike

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Querker#1809 wrote:

will you quietly close the game and wait for a next update?

I mean, that's always an option. Any dynamic game runs that risk. I'm not convinced this would be as demoralizing as you're making it out to be. Further, proper design would have some form of guardrails to help underperforming builds access the content. A common example is varied difficulty settings. The novel activity could be introduced with progressively more difficult iterations gated behind performance thresholds. Alternatively, completing other activities could offer temporal buffs to supplement subpar builds.

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Querker#1809 wrote:

So you face a choice - either you start from the beginning in a "kinda ssf" environment cause early drops now mean nothing and make a new toon with the said challenge in mind, or never come back.

You've constructed a false dichotomy upon baseless speculation while continually ignoring that catch-up mechanisms are, by design, used to mitigate the worst of these extremes. Nothing you've posted has made a case for continual character wipes being a necessity.

I agree with everything said and much more left unsaid. I have a metric ton of gripes with poe 2 but I refrain from posting it myself because I am never good at writing it out and every time I've tried giving criticism it meant nothing.

I hope posts like this one will be enough to make GGG change their mind with their current idea of what poe 2 should be like.

As it stands, all I want is for the next poe 1 league to come out and them to add wasd support in it. I don't wanna struggle anymore.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

will you quietly close the game and wait for a next update?
I mean, that's always an option. Any dynamic game runs that risk. I'm not convinced this would be as demoralizing as you're making it out to be. Further, proper design would have some form of guardrails to help underperforming builds access the content.

But what if that design choice is a blank start? When the game advertises itself as a build-creating sandbox - even after hundreds of hours youre not expected to understand all of the interactions that are implemented. So in order to help you in exploring possibilities the game creates a certain list of checkboxes that allow for creating a strong character if you manage to fill them all. Then they add a storyline and call that a "main campaign". Restarting the game is a core of build-designing anyway, so its much better to integrate the tutorial and introduce a new checkbox while its okay from challenge perspective to hold your hand rather than force you to complete said tutorial in an end-game situation so you wont be fooled into thinking "thats too easy/too hard/why am i even doing that im already finished this character?"

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

You've constructed a false dichotomy upon baseless speculation while continually ignoring that catch-up mechanisms are, by design, used to mitigate the worst of these extremes. Nothing you've posted has made a case for continual character wipes being a necessity.

Im using my own experience as an arpg enjoyer. When Titan Quest 1 got new dlc - ive started from scratch so i can use all the new skills/items/mechanics to progress through the game. If ive just jumped with the existing character - the experience wouldve been much shallower and the effect of said dlc wouldnt be understood to a full extent, because the gameplay was adjusted to use them from the river shore. They also give an option to skip "early" phase by picking lvl 50 toon - but running naked with a character that youve never toyed with before when the game stops holding your hand is not enjoying either. The catch-up mechanic is a main campaign, it allows to properly organise everything in a smooth gameplay, and it always was, and no other game ever succeded with changing that.

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

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GregoryAdams#7051 wrote:

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Orionstar#4752 wrote:

A community divided by the dodge roll. Perhaps what they can do, which they probably won’t, because it would cost too much, is to update Poe1 with the Poe2 graphics system and continue to make attractive leagues for Poe1 players.

Yeah. That would certainly help.

They really just need to come out and say what the long-term plan is here. What the worst case scenarios are, especially.

Like, let's say, 90% of people love PoE 2, and only 10% play PoE 1, what kind of support and shelf-life can PoE 1 players expect?

Or what if the opposite happens - 90% of people play PoE 2 for 2 or 3 leagues, and decide that actually, they hate it. What happens to PoE 2, then?

Because the people, who are not in it for the long haul, don't care either way. But those, who are, really want to know.

They have said this, MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES.

POE1 is here to stay, it will continue to get updates and new leagues. POE2 will do the same. They will stagger them, so POE1 and POE2 will never start a new league at the same time (so if POE1 league starts in Jan, POE2 league won't start until maybe mid Feb).

OK, calm down, I remember that they said that both games will continue to co-exist. That is not what I'm asking.
What I'm asking is, what happens if one of the games is significantly underperforming?
OK? That's a different question.

The funniest part is that the "hype army" that is not here to stay keep saying to PoE veterans with thousands and thousands of hours of gameplay on PoE to leave and go play PoE1 because "that's the game for you!!!"

So, the loyal customers should go away and play the old and dated product and the company should cater to the new "hype army" that will leave as soon as something new and hyped comes around...

Yeaaaaaaah... what a "great strategy"...


Whatever... the OP is 100% to the point... the game is UTTERLY TEDIOUS!!!

The game is not easy or hard or whatever... it's utterly tedious time wasting with needlessly long kill times and a myriad of one shot mechanics...

I played Last Epoch this week and while it's very easy and not a challenge until you get to real late game, it's at least FUN TO PLAY!!!

Why? Cause in a looter, I FIND LOOT!!!
Why? Cause I make a build based on knowledge and logic and it works!!!
Why? Cause I never get one shot because I didn't press space for the 150th time in a row!!!

The list can take three pages really...

PoE2 is a TERRIBLE looter ARPG because right now it's not adding any of the core mechanics of looter ARPGs that make the game ACTUALLY FUN!!!

All good and right Arguments... Totally agree with this . +1

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

[...]Nothing you've posted has made a case for continual character wipes being a necessity.

There is no discussion about wipes being a necessity or not. It's by design.

Let me shove it to your face again :

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

[...]
A little education for you :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcd9BfVw7hQ (Path of Exile 2 Announcement)
You can watch everything, or start specifically at 5:05 and get the facts straight.

Also you can educate yourself with (Designing Path of Exile to Be Played Forever. Chris Wilson) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM_5S55jUzk

Yes, one of the creators of GGG knows more than you do.

You're coming here saying football should be played with hands, and you're stuck on "but noone provided me any argument against it". Well duhhhhh

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Querker#1809 wrote:

When I asked the question why ive never seen any of people asking for a slower gameplay with meaningful bosses in ruthless - people started to avoid such question or teaching me about it. The scarcity and speed of POE2 was implemented a lot earlier, and almost nobody cared.

Because Path of Exile 1 Ruthless is not PoE2.

PoE1 Ruthless does not have the myriad of improvements and the game engine designed for this sort of play. Ruthless is PoE1 - a game specifically and solely tuned and designed for UltraSuperHyperMega Zoom Zoom Boom Vroom Blaster Master Must-Go-Faster play to the explicit and deliberate exclusion of anything else - with artificial constraints to try and induce a slower, more deliberate playstyle but without any of the tools POE2 has to make that slower, more deliberate playstyle actually rewarding and enjoyable to play.

PoE1 Ruthless feels like a slog because it's a (far too) fast game artificially forced to be slow. We are hoping that PoE2 can be a slow game from the start where some folks can achieve moderate speed, but no one can achieve the absolute lunatic insanity of PoE1 because that is such an immense turn-off for so many players. And no, despite what pithy pundits will say about "no one is forcing you to zoom in PoE1" - yes, they are. THE GAME ITSELF forces it, because the game is unplayable if you are not moving at the speed of quantum entanglement making a thousand divines an hour.

I agree with everything except the pace.
I like slow. I wish it was even slower.
Diablo 2 slow.
I was an intermediate player in PoE1, between tourists and veterans, and -everytime- a pro joined my map for a reason or another, I was running after him while he was clearing screens at the speed of light and moving like the flash.
I really hope PoE2 does not take that route, for I find it disgusting.

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Kaozium#2036 wrote:

I agree with everything except the pace.
I like slow. I wish it was even slower.
Diablo 2 slow.
I was an intermediate player in PoE1, between tourists and veterans, and -everytime- a pro joined my map for a reason or another, I was running after him while he was clearing screens at the speed of light and moving like the flash.
I really hope PoE2 does not take that route, for I find it disgusting.

But that will happen with POE2 anyway. The "pro" good at POE1 not because there is an option to blitz around, but because he knows how to do that, he has mechanical skills to sustain such speeds and react to something happening and he understands the game enough so his character is not dying after jumping in the next monster pack. POE 2 has a blink since day 1, together with other options of travelling like leap slams, stampede or flicker. And those, who invested more time to learning how to make them work will make them work. So prepare to get more frustrated.

"Enigma" is considered the most overpowered runeword in d2 for the same reason. People adapted to using items with teleport charges. And they are flying through the game with somewhat comparable to poe1 speeds.