Ascendancies and Minions in PoE 2

So all classes will get 180 spirt from the acts. Then if you use a scepter you get a min of 100 more. For total of around 280 (before stats on gear). That we know of.

The infernalist gets a special minion summon and can get more spirit by sacrificing its own life force (25% life to turn 25 life to 1 spirit).

So if you are get around 5k life that is an additional 200 spirit. Which will probably equate to a lot of extra minions once you take in account the 12% reduction from the tree and the fact that as the minion gems level it will take less spirit to summon your minions.

There there is the small node to the hound that increases your minions life and increased life nodes to the life reservation node.

To say it isn't a minion ascendancy is stretching it a bit. It might not be the minion ascendancy you want, but it is one.

I know what we are missing; we need the "Spiritborn" from D4 since D4 sucks, so no ascendency will have a big Spirit-impacting node, lol.

They should buff infernal spirit one spirit per 10 life or something, and no reserve.

Or

A copy of the minion's node to the south side of the trees, so everyone goes with Gemling.

Or

Making all ascendency nodes in all classes "with you and your minions", Then we are speaking in terms of their logic of not needing to have specific ascendency for an archetype

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BigJoe1981#4119 wrote:

So all classes will get 180 spirt from the acts. Then if you use a scepter you get a min of 100 more. For total of around 280 (before stats on gear). That we know of.

The infernalist gets a special minion summon and can get more spirit by sacrificing its own life force (25% life to turn 25 life to 1 spirit).

So if you are get around 5k life that is an additional 200 spirit. Which will probably equate to a lot of extra minions once you take in account the 12% reduction from the tree and the fact that as the minion gems level it will take less spirit to summon your minions.

There there is the small node to the hound that increases your minions life and increased life nodes to the life reservation node.

To say it isn't a minion ascendancy is stretching it a bit. It might not be the minion ascendancy you want, but it is one.

Thanks for the breakdown. It seems OK for the EA now. But my main gripe is that I want to see insane stuff like other classes have: "Warcries have no cooldown" or "10% chance when YOU kill an enemy that they explode for 100% of their life." I mean, WTF? Extra spirit, some fire damage for minions, and an extra minion aren't comparable to how the first example boosts one playstyle to an absurd level, and the second one is so versatile and seems extremely powerful.

I want to raise this issue now so we can argue for a Minion class (or classes) that gets either very specific skill boosts or versatile ones that allow for any minion or minion playstyle combination. Maybe even flip it on its head, where minions aren't the main focus anymore but act as a resource, a projectile, a defensive layer, or a mechanic where you combine minions into an abomination that can be ridden, like the mount thing for the ranger.

Lack of necromancer ascendancy in Poe 2 is very bad IMO.

GGG is long time promoting self cast build and ignores ppl medical health issues like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome / Repetitive Strain Injury.

The issue with an entire Ascendancy devoted to "Minions go boom I through IV" is that the traditional/classic POE1 Minion playstyle is extremely passive. Unacceptably passive by the standards of the game PoE2 is striving to be. "Stand around and exist so your minions can play the game for you" is not a compelling gameplay loop. All of the minion adjustments and fixes in PoE2 are to allow for a more active, engaged playstyle - you no longer have to waste time resummoning minions, you have Command skills to make your minions do things, you've got a Minions Interact button, and many of the Occult skills are designed to interact with minions in ways that encourage more active play.

An Ascendancy that removes all of that and goes back to "stand around with your thumb up your hindquarters while your minions play the game for you" is a huge step back and a contradiction with the kind of game Path 2 is trying to be.

Is there room for a minions-only Ascendancy that enhances this more involved playstyle? Possibly. But relatively few Ascendancies have skill-specific notables, and even the ones that do only have a couple of them rather than devoting literally the entire Ascendancy to one specific skill type. The Warbringer has Warcry skills, sure - two of them. The rest of the tree is still a thing for Warbringers who don't want to shout at the world. A Necromancer Ascendancy with 100% of its nodes consisting of "Minions go Boom I~X" would be a terrible waste for all the Witch players who don't focus exclusively on minions - they only get two valid choices of Ascendancy, rather than three like everybody else.

There is also the fact that minions as a whole are much stronger in PoE2 than they were in PoE1. They're balanced around being the primary usage of your reservations outright, rather than needing half a dozen auras to be competitive, and you get a greater variety of them on top of free resummons. All minions get Mark the Prey built in for free now, and skills such as offerings are easier to use.

For people suffering medical issues, I honestly heartily recommend seeking more ergonomic gaming devices. The Razer Tartarus or similar keypads are literal game changers. I've used a keypad like this paired with a multi-button MMO mouse under my right hand for over a decade, and I will never (PC) game any other way again. The ergonomics are fantastic, I can play for many hours without suffering any sort of strain or soreness in my hands or wrists. PoE2 is also much more suited to controller play than PoE1 was, and gaming companies have spent billions on researching and perfecting the design of controllers for good reason.

I say this not to make light of anyone with a medical condition that impairs their gaming, but in the hopes that people who do suffer such conditions can check out a potential option for ameliorating that condition and enjoying ALL their games, not just PoE2, more.

I agree it seems like the vision of POE2 is more player interaction not less. Seems like the playstyle of either totems and minions having a passive playstyle has been exchanged for a more active one. Requiring the player to do more then run in circles while their minions or totems do all the heavy lifting.

I also purchased an MMO mouse and invested in an ergonomic keyboard to elevate some of the strain I was putting on my wrists.

Right now there are discussions of Gemling Legionnaire being a good ascendancy for minions (we will not know for sure until we get the full passive tree), and players might find different interactions with other ascendancies that might make a great choice for the minion choice.

I think that is better overall for the playerbase who want to play minions because it allows for more diversity, rather than "Oh I want to play a minion build I have to choose this class/ascendancy"

But who knows, there are 6 more classes and 24 more ascendancies coming who knows what the future will hold for the minion playstyle.

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BigJoe1981#4119 wrote:

I agree it seems like the vision of POE2 is more player interaction not less. Seems like the playstyle of either totems and minions having a passive playstyle has been exchanged for a more active one. Requiring the player to do more then run in circles while their minions or totems do all the heavy lifting.

I also purchased an MMO mouse and invested in an ergonomic keyboard to elevate some of the strain I was putting on my wrists.

Right now there are discussions of Gemling Legionnaire being a good ascendancy for minions (we will not know for sure until we get the full passive tree), and players might find different interactions with other ascendancies that might make a great choice for the minion choice.

I think that is better overall for the playerbase who want to play minions because it allows for more diversity, rather than "Oh I want to play a minion build I have to choose this class/ascendancy"

But who knows, there are 6 more classes and 24 more ascendancies coming who knows what the future will hold for the minion playstyle.

But is that not already the case? Necro is not the defacto minion ascendancy since like god knows how long, theres PLENTY of niche builds that have been better as other ascendancies.

For a few leagues elementalist was the play for golems. Guardian for srs/skeletons. Occoultist for spiders. HoAg Jugg. Dominating blow guardian.


Does this not seem like ggg creating a problem that does not need to be fixed? Like that's not even taking into account the new player which there will be many. Tehy will have NO idea what do choose lol. Why shouldn't there be a blanket ascendancy thats good for minions but maybe no the best for all minions? I just will never see this logic as the problem didn't even exist in poe 1...

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ericlh370#4021 wrote:

But is that not already the case? Necro is not the defacto minion ascendancy since like god knows how long, theres PLENTY of niche builds that have been better as other ascendancies.

For a few leagues elementalist was the play for golems. Guardian for srs/skeletons. Occoultist for spiders. HoAg Jugg. Dominating blow guardian.


Does this not seem like ggg creating a problem that does not need to be fixed? Like that's not even taking into account the new player which there will be many. Tehy will have NO idea what do choose lol. Why shouldn't there be a blanket ascendancy thats good for minions but maybe no the best for all minions? I just will never see this logic as the problem didn't even exist in poe 1...

Right. The problem we see now is that what is the point of the ascendancies?

If an entire archetype is not supported by any of them, then you don't need any of the main draws of picking a class .. it's upgrade path.

So then you pick one that has something valuable that can be used, but then those ascendancies are filled with things that have gameplay mechanics or buffs that run counter-intuitive to the type of archetype / build you are trying to play. There's no way you're going to invest passive points and gear into making those ascendancies symbiotic .. because now you're sacrificing your intended build type.

It's why hybrid gameplay never works in games, because they're all designed in ways that you have to specialize and focus on one thing, otherwise you can't do most of the endgame. So it's nonsensical when they just sprinkle stuff all over the place, and tell you "Just make it how you want!". Well, then stop making games that require you to power fantasy your way to such extreme levels that you can't be a jack of all trades to complete it.

Not having dedicated totem / minion / etc. upgrade paths with your character just means they're going to fall behind quickly .. and be boring AF; disappointing at worst because you spent all that time on a class type that just doesn't function at all with what you want to do.

Elementalist was like this in PoE for golems for years .. you picked up your first two lab runs and then entirely skipped merciless and uber. They did nothing for you. Hierophant still has the one brand node. One. And two totem ones.

Looking at the PoE 2 ascendancies .. they mostly look like hot generic garbage. Either it's just a bunch of old Diablo 4 damage on tuesdays .. or they're so goofy and niche that you can really only make it work if you go all in on that one single mechanic. These aren't things you can just sprinkle onto a build, which is ironic, or as a suppliment for something you're missing. Nobody is running a build that does personal damage with a minion build .. that's a death sentence. And you're not running one that specializes in blocking.

What are these design decisions? There's no harmony.

I am worried about summoners. It's always the worst balanced type in any arpg. Either complete garbage or complete ezmode broken.

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legionnaire's starting point is too far away from the minion nodes on the passive tree...so it will probably not be worth going legionnaire for minions unless you want to waste a lot of points travelling

I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall in the big POE2 reveal or subsequently, that there are items you can slot into the passive tree that will allow you to traverse it to nodes further away.