Poe2 Ascendancy
" We don't know all of the nodes for either revealed Ascendancy class, on top of not knowing the third Ascendancy at all. " I don't know why so many people are assuming the Infernalist does things with fire damage. The "Infernal Heat" mechanic isn't a fire damage thing, it's replacing your mana bar with an entirely new way to pay the costs for skills. If you can build around dealing with the overheat explosion, you can gain what is in effect infinite mana from Infernal Heat. And the Demon Form is a buff with a flashy visual that has no especial interaction with fire damage as it's currently been revealed to us. If you want to play a minion-focused character, the Infernalist provides exclusive access to a powerful nw minion - the Hellhound - and the ability to allow all of your minions to Ignite with management of Infernal Heat. Among its various other unrevealed options. " The Blood Mage's core skill leaves Life Remnants from enemies killed by you or your minions - your critter army will leave blood bloops on the ground to help you heal. One of its other nodes gives you a heap of extra maximum life based on your body armor's ES value. There will be options for making Blood Mage useful, especially since the exceptionally passive style of minion character you're talking about almost never uses skills, so will almost never have to pay the added life cost for those skills. " GGG is trying to steer people away from this hyper-passive minion build where the player themself is largely irrelevant to the game and spends every fight just kinda standing around watching TV. The Witch should be commanding her army, bolstering and supporting them with active minion skills like the Offerings or Curses while being her own most powerful 'minion'. Even if you don't care to do damage yourself, you can use your own skills to debuff, inflict conditions, and set up your minions to succeed. " We don't know that she can't. " They don't want the Necromancer to be the only choice for minion builds, the way it was in PoE1. The Necromancer in PoE1 is also generally completely worthless if you're not making a minion build. That's a boring nonchoice - if you're playing minions you do the Necromancer and nothing else, and if you're not playing minions the Necromancer doesn't exist. Grinding Gear wants people making minion builds to have multiple choices of Ascendancy that each improve their build in different ways and/or enable new builds entirely - exactly the same as for every other build archetype in PoE. Building a Minion character? Maybe you go Infernalist for access to the powerful Hellhound and tune your army to be able to take advantage of the constant Ignites from Infernal Heat with options like Immolate Support or Cast on Ignite. Maybe you go Blood Mage for the constant stream of extra healing from minion kills and the ability to shore up your defenses. Or maybe you go Mercenary with his Gemling Legionaire Ascendancy to give you three additional active skills you can turn into a more diverse minion army while using some of his abilities to modify gems and skills to do minion-y stuff the Witch cannot. Or maybe you go Sorceress Chronomancer because the Chronomancer can reset the cooldowns of powerful minion Command skills...and because there are actually factually zero build archetypes that cannot derive enormous benefit from STOPPING FREAKING TIME. Minions will be fine. The core minion gameplay is so dramatically improved from PoE1 that the build archetype doesn't need an Ascendancy dedicated solely to making the bad build good, which means how you decide to improve your minion master is an actual choice up to you, rather than a nonchoice the game makes for you. Have fun with your decision! |
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well you say it yourself, the pet is improved and don't need ascendancy.... means what the point of ascendancy if you play minion.
plus you contracdict yourself about infernalis, you say is not based fire and right after say you can build something around ignite what is fire damage. but i digress... the trouble of poe in the case of minion build lack of choice it's because outside golem and a few other thing like animate armor weapon or symbol, for minion it was mostly undead... is not that we had no choice.... it's because it was the only choice. never they have try to add another ascendancy for minion. nor more diversity for minion type. plus about the fact to be passive, yes in poe we are more passive and mostly spend our time to avoid to die that all... while keeping pet up most of the time. in poe 2 we will have tempory that need to be call back and permanent pet that can be order around. and other game have show is possible to have minion build where player are active, by adding skill that allows you to control the pet comportement. all of this was done passively because of the support gem. but you have game that did added charge to melee skeleton or capacity for mage or ranged... even game like last epoch have try to add mechanic to pet for give them stuff to do in the primalist case. finally like i have said necromancer is not only about pet, it's the master of death, it can be the speciality that have more bone spell too, can have a change of form into lich that will allows to empower as death/bone spell. we need to make the difference between poe and poe2. ps: it was pointed out that other ascendancy for other class was more specialized and it feel strange to think minion can't be the main focus of a build because it will lack a decent ascendancy for support this gameplay. don't get me wrong, i don't want simply to have an ascendancy that will make me passive, i want them to create a diverse interaction between player and them minion on the field.... plus add more choice in terms of minion type... druid can and must have minion spell, they are one with nature and they can call to animal for fight alongside them or even call the spirit of the nature. that the lack of diversity that did make everyone that did wanted play minion build flock to necromancers.... |
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" Probably from the meaning of the word "infernal" (hell and/or inferno), and how infernal skills have always been themed around fire in PoE 1. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you. Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Nov 27, 2024, 12:20:18 PM
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Thing about the necro tree is most of the minion stuff is just "add minion damage" which you totally dont need a dedicated ascendancy for. You can move stuff around like Bone barrier and commander of darkness easily.
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" Yeah nah I totally get the imagery and the connotations. it's just weird that pretty much nobody I've talked to about it has caught the fact that outside the Ignite thing for minions and the Heccpuppy, fire damage was never mentioned anywhere in the class. Normally Path of Exile players are way better about catching the specific language used and not assuming based on appearance. Huh. Ah well. Related: there's no way I'm the only one to catch the "Infinite casting forever" aspect of Pyromantic Pact, am I? I have seen precisely no one else talking about it, but seriously. In a game where resource management is intended to be a serious problem that requires significant resources to fix, nobody else caught wind of what Pyromantic pact offers? it's like, if a node read "when you reach 0 mana you take Cold damage equivalent to your total Life and Energy Shield, then instantly regenerate 100% of your mana pool", people would be over the moon about that. And yet nobody's talking about Pyromantic pact doing exactly that? So bizarre. And now........sigh. " To make your build better and more interesting. Flat buffs to minion damage are boring as hell, and can be found everywhere. An entire Ascendancy does not need to be devoted solely to 'make minions more biggerer'. " You CAN build around Ignite. You do not need to. Nor do you necessarily care about Ignite damage in such a build; in my specific example it was the presence of Ignite that allowed bonus damage, as well as the act of igniting that granted free casts. Neither Immolate Support (if it still exists in PoE2) nor Cast on ignite actually care about the damage of the Ignite. Plus, this is Path of exile - nobody said your ignites have to come from Fire damage. Hell, the Ascendancy node specifically states "all damage contributes to Ignite" - it is saying you don't need to use fire to light people on fire. " I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? The Druid will come, and will have Nature-themed minions. Other classes have minions or minion-like entities as well. You seem to be asking for an Ascendancy that does literally nothing but improve minion numbers. An Ascendancy with a bunch of "40% Better Minions" nodes. That's incredibly boring and unworthy of being an Ascendancy class. Why would that be desirable, when your Ascendancy could do awesome shit instead? Seriously. I cannot stress enough how ridiculous Pyromantic Pact is. Imagine being able to precisely control and guarantee the triggering of a high-level Cast While Damage Taken gem because every time you max out your Infernal Heat you deal a precisely predictable amount of damage to yourself. Without having to use half a dozen pieces of gear to do it. How is that not fantastic? And y'all KNOW CWDT is going to be a thing, don't even @ me over 'we don't know it's there!" it's such an iconic Path of Exile thing, the players would see it as a betrayal if there was no CWDT tombuggery going down in the new game. " Exactly. Now you don't have to be a passive weenie doing nothing while your minions carry you like the baggage on a dogsled team. Don't like bone or chaos spells, any of the Occult stuff? You're a Witch - you start with all the same access to caster-y stuff in the northern sextant of the tree that the Sorceress does. Take her stuff. Build a minion army that blasts enemies with snipers and grenadiers through Walls of Fire while you control their movement with ice spells. Head to the northeast sextant of the tree for Monk/Quarterstaff stuff and be a Solo Leveling character who supports their deadly high-speed melee combat with a profusion of minions to cover their back. ...legit, that actually sounds cool as hell, especially given the Dual Spec system on the tree. When dagger skills drop and you can go dagger+sceptre, you could just go straight-up Sung Jinwoo and carve enemies to linguini with your blade while your shadows handle the chaff. Sounds like a great opportunity to do Blood Mage stuff to me, especially if you can rig up your default attack to be a bread-and-butter skill. remember, default attack costs 0 mana. All things multiplied by zero remain zero, and a "life cost equivalent to mana cost" of zero is in fact also zero. Easy way to have a skill that bypasses the drawback of Sanguimancy. The possibilities are endless. Experiment! Do cool stuff! Don't let yourself be anchored down by the thought that "this is how minion builds worked in PoE1 so this is how I have to play in PoE2." Be part of finding the new Minion Meta. " The whole idea with Ascendancies in Path of Exile 2 is that they don't really do this. There's no "I'm playing Bone spells, so I'll take the Bone Spell Ascendancy" class. There's no "I'm playing crossbows, so I'll take the Crossbows Ascendancy" class. They don't want to create a system where your Ascendancy is nothing but a lame number booster to the basic thing you're doing without an Ascendancy class. Even the Ascendancies that mostly just double down on the core identity of a class - the Titan, the Stormweaver, the Deadeye - do things that work across a wide variety of skills, skill types, and build options. " Siiiiigh. Not having a "Minions are 40% Better" node does not mean an Ascendancy cannot support minion gameplay. " The diverse interaction between players and minions on the field are baked into the skills themselves. Occult skills that interact with minions such as Offerings, the Command skills of minions themselves, and the ability of minions to interact with other combo elements are all "diverse interactions between players and their minions on the field." Heck - when the game drops, see if you can get the Tempest Bell from the Monk class, place it, then order your minions to all wail on it at once for Massive Damage. People think the autocrossbow + Bell combo is nuts? Try twenty Multistriking Skeleton Warriors all wailing on the Murder Bell (provided minions are allowed to target the bell, anyways). The Ascendancy is for enabling new interactions, providing new tools, and elevating your build. Not just passively embiggening your existing numbers. |
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"Me no see minion in class name mean no minion class :(" and not seeing the benefits multiple ascendancies already will have for minions reminds me of valve having play testers walk in a circle for hours in half-life 2. Just use a modicum of creativity and you'll find a way.
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when i did say i wanted an ascendancy that was pure filled with junk nods like increase minion damage or such? never, i have always said that i want an ascendancy that support minion and bring new gameplay mechanic.
you have a lot of way to interact with minion as necromancer (and i don't talk of poe) is about commanding an army using spell for enhance them capacity or use bone magic and death magic for control the field... minion are not only about dealing damage it's about controling the field. and you seems to think that having minion dealing most of the damage is brain dead.... want to talk about spin to win? 1 skill used while ignoring most of the enemy and just avoiding what can kill you.... change it from cyclone to pet.... use your pet while ignoring most of the enemy and just avoiding what can kill you. and i'm sure people will probably find the new spin to win build that will make everything brain dead. but we are not here for debat about what is right or wrong about how we play... it's all about choice, like the idea to use the bell with minion, it's a cool way... but it's not the what we are talking about. why other ascendancy will enhance the gameplay of other type of skill and not minion? and one more time i don't talk of increase thedamage of X% no no no, i'm talking of new mechanic, like new form for the pet or evolution of certain order we can give to the pet. like making the pet create a sort of wall that will stop any melee enemy to reach the caster. like a ice wall, but instead to be ice, it can be a bone wall, using the tempory pet for create a new wall if notthe permanent pet. why not go farer create bone spell that will directly consume your pet for be casted... like consumingall your permanent pet for create an area called land of the dead that will automatically resurect enemy falling into zombie or skeleton, but if they exit your land they return to death. and i have said, why not add a lich form to the necromancer for enhance any bone and death spell... you have many way to work with the pet and it's not simply enhance them damage, but how you use them. you can even have a reaper form that will make you unable to summon pet, but fora laps of time you become death incarnate, having more damage for your bone spell and such... you have a lot of idea around.... not everything is about simply increase damage or hp or resistance.... it's about what they can do or not. and why i was talking about druid, simply for get out of the idea, we only have one ascendancy for minion, more choice means more way to interact with the game. ps: you realize that pyro means fire, right? infernalis is about hell fire power. even the magic that replace mana is called flame magic. it's ok to have a branch that is fire oriented. pss: another point for make pet relevant you need specific stats, when you build a character that will use pet, you want to have this stats and equipement have a limited amount of stats available... leading to have a difficult time to make other skill interact with it correctly. it's possible, not efficient, but if you have pet without this stats but at this point, why not use skill that is buffed by your stats... like using ranged weapon, when all your equipement buff range combat or melee weapon when your are melee oriented. Last edited by BeldhanFR#5781 on Nov 28, 2024, 7:21:56 AM
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" Any of Hierophant ascendancies can represent a paladin's theme. Do you really need it to literally be called "Paladin" to recognize your character as a paladin? O.O I mean, it's not a Diablo class, it's a named toolkit you can use to empower any thematic fantasy you can possibly imagine. Last edited by denistalalae#3713 on Nov 28, 2024, 11:06:24 AM
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